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I began my main home theater shopping for a large screen rptv to do double duty in my Gallo music room. I have reservations about placing a large box between my spreakers, but want a larger, better home theater than what I now have.
I love the 16:9 screens but 80% of our viewing is of 4:3 material from the dss satellite. So my main question on this trip was how does the 4:3 picture looked when stretched to fill the 16:9 screen.
I first auditioned Toshiba widescreen, and found that their TheaterView 1 and 3 distorted the picture as to make it unwatcheable for us. The TheaterView 2 mode, which zooms in and crops the top and bottom provided the least amount of distortion but lost a great deal of picture content. The cropping could be raised or lowered so that, at least, the tops of the heads werre intact, but much bottom info was lost. The Wide mode for anamorphich dvd was, of course, outstanding. So I was left wondering if I could live with a 16:9 set, based on my viewing habits. I do NOT like the look of a smaller 4:3 image on a 16:9 screen with the side bars.
But we then saw the new Pioneer Elite Pro-700HD 65" 16:9. It has 5 stretch modes, including the one for anamorphic. Well, one of them (the name of which now esacapes me but wasy to find by just watching) was amazing. The distortion, if any at all, was neglible. there was no loss of any top or bottom information. It means that one could watch 4:3 programs in a full, stretched mode to fill the screen, without seeing short, stubby legs or wide, squatty people. It definitely was many cuts above the Toshiba. And the Pioneer was bright enough to view in the fully lit room that it was in.
The Pioner set sells at my dealer for $7500 delivered ($8500 SMRP, they say.) Certainly it's pricey, but probably one of the very best hdtv ready, 65" 16:9 sets out there. I've read posts on the Digital Theater Forum about a "ringing" problem with these sets, but didn.t audition it long enough to see what difference it might make. The set was great at filling the 4:3 image to the 16:9 screen size. And the 65" was just right, given my 15' viewing distance.
But, then came the surprise.
In between these viewings, we were treated to an audition of the Dream Vision DL500 faront projector. This uses the latest generation Texas Instruments single chip DLP technology.
The picture was outstanding, watching the dvd of The Mask of Zorro, blown up to fill the width of the 100" screen. With dss movie sources, the picture was still sharp, but improved when brought down in size to 65"-70".
The fan noise was minimal--in fact, I couldn't hear it all with the projector set on a table about 3-4 feet behind us, and only noticed it when the projector was moved a few feet in front of us to help reduce the picture size. It hardly lost focus. Amazingly, at just 10 pounds with little set up configuration, we moved the projector here and there, tilted up or leveled flat, and the picture was outstanding. It sells for $6000, with the screen the dealer was using (don't know what it is) for another $1200.
It got me to rethink the purpose of my home theater room. The hugh dvd picture was incredible and maybe, this should be my focus.
The advantage of the Pioneer Elite rptv, as I see it is that it can be used in a brighter room, it can stretch a 4:3 picture to fill the 65" 16:9 screen, and it's hdtv ready. The disadvantage is it's fixed size, although it is large.
The advantage of the DLP projector is the ability to watch 4:3 or 16:9 at any size that the screen will accomodate, and it's low profile and light weight. And by using a pull down screen, it will have the least impact on my room, which serves as my high end music room. The screen can come down in front of the wall of large house plants that I use to buffer the front wall, and can be easily stored out of the way. Although I couldn't stretch a 4"3 image, I certainly could enlarge it. Sounds like a tweaker's delight.
The disadvantage is the need to put blinds on all the windows for daytime viewing hours.
It's a tough call, right now, for me but I'm leaning toward the DLP projector. Of course, I would have to save $$$ for another year with 2/2000 being the target date. There will probably be a next generation model by then.
Has anybody else seen the newest DLP projectors? I'd appreciate any feedback.
Thanks to all involved in this new site. I always felt that Francis was a failure as a moderator on his site. There's absolutely no reason to allow the garbage flames.
I revisited the deraler for another, more serious audition of the Dream Vision, taking with me notes from Mtry and from other research around the web. I went in to focus on all the shortcomings of this projector.
Boy, is this one impressive performer, given its $6000 price.
Mtry, I don't know if you auditioned this unit but the circles were circles and there weren't any noticeable jagged edges on white stripes. Are you sure that both the dvd and projector were in anamorphic mode with The Mask of Zorro?
I check vertical lines, like the moldings in As Good As It Gets. Perfectrly straight. Fleshtones. Acurate. No oversaturation of colors. The contrast, brightness, color saturation et al controls on the projector were all less than one half of their range.
There were momentary waveylines, similar to what I get on my Toshiba tube with window blinds, checkered pattrns, etc., baut they never took away from the movie.
I requested that non anamorphic movies be shown to eliminate the best possible picture that the anamorphic presented. We had the picture at about 100 inches diagnal, which would be about a 7 foot wide screen.
There was the lighter frame around the movie, and this could be eliminated on the sides by filling in the picture to the black edge of the screen. But It was present on the top and bottom. It's affect was to take some of the contrast of colors away from the picture. We increased the caontrast a tad to compensate.
With Dish Network sattelite transmission, the picture, obviously, wasn't as sharp as the dvd. So we zoomed in to about a 70-75 inch screen equivalent, and things sharpened up considerably.
Unfortuneastely, it has only an s-video and computer interface input. The dealer's technician is working on building an RGB to computer interface (the horizontal, multipin type whose name/number escapes me) to allow for the hookup of future progressive scan output, or even a line doubler (don't know if opne would work with the Dream Vision once the appropriate cable connection could be made. the dealer said that he waas told that it would work. Who knows?)
Whatever shortcomings this projector has, and those of the DLP technology, are minor to me, given its price. Certainly, this second generation chip from TI has elevated the single chip dlp projecator above the pack of first generation single ship projectors.
For now, I'm sold. ($6000 is still a lot of $$$$.)
Hi Shelly, glad to see you looking at a front projector. As I started to read your post I was thinking that to spend any real cash on a RP would be a waist. As far as I'm concerned RPs are old tech that never made it. I HATE RPs! My brother was one of the first to buy one and I remember thinking.."gee it's big...but the picture is so bad"... and back then it really was, almost unewatchable. He was unable to sell it till he meet someone who perchased it without looking at it turned on. I have to admit that the latest are looking much better if you sit back far enough and stay still and look down at it...hate the hot spot. Resently with several people I was trying to judge the picture quality of different brands of DVD players. On a Sony RP set no difference was noticable, but on a Sony tube set, differences were clear(Sony 7700 much better than lower cost units). In five years IMHO RPs will be a thing of the past and FP will be the standard. Get a FP!
Here's what I would do. Look in all the papers and try to find yourself a used Mits X7. Most of these sets were perchased by emploees($7,800 list!)and are showing up for little more than other used 35in sets as they need the bucks to get a FP unit. This will give you the best possible "off the air"...cable picture for watching daytime stuff up close. Then get a FP for HT and enjoy a really good picture that does not change as you move your head. Ever since CES 98 and seeing how good this tech is, I have wanted one and would have one if I had the space...house comes first. The advantages of FP far outweigh RP in terms of space and resale value two years from now.
With all the new models and prices droping, FPs are the only way to go IMHO!
Good luck, John^^
Keep in mind that HDTV programming is 16:9. There's not much now, but there will be more in the future.
Personally, I prefer the old standby CRT projector to any of the newer technologies. Although it's more difficult to set up and not nearly as bright, its picture quality more closely resembles the film experience (especially with a quality external line doubler).
The Sony VPH-D50Q can be had for $8000. Add an external Faroudja doubler (LD200 or VP201) and you'll forget all about any of the other technologies. It does anamorphic, scans up to 64K (so it's ready for HDTV), and it will take the progressive output of a DVD player (if these ever get released).
It's going to take me another year of saving just to be able to make the $8000 or so I'd need for the Dream Vision, screen, long s-video cable, taxes, etc.
I went shopping with $3000 with the possibility of extending that to $4000. When I saw the Pioneer Pro 200's picture, I almost bought it on site, until I learned it was $7500 plus tax. It made the DLP projector seem like a bargain.
The convenience, ease of setup (plug and play basically) and increased light output, and lower overall price are very important factors for me. I realize that I will be far from a great setup but will have a very good one instead. The demo I saw was great, and I know for certain that I no longer want a rear projection tv. I can't imagine that 65 inches looks small to me now.
But I plan to audition some CRT's (and LCDs) this coming year, and to search the archives and Deja News to gather more information about front projectors. I had always skipped over these posts in the past.
But what's more important is that my wife just LOVED the large size screening, and is excited about this purchase. She already helped decorate and smooth the sound of our music room with wall hangings, plants and drapes (curtains). The music room is indeed spaceous, handsome and relaxing She even said that she would help pay for our new home theater (she earns more than I do). I feel blessed to have this kind of support for my hobby (addiction).
I saw a DLP set a few days ago. Forgot the brand but was advertised for $6k. The picture was bright, but it was not calibrated properly so I believe it was overdriven. They fiddled with the red color. Interesting that Zorrow was showing with that as well.
A couple of points for you to look at with the DLP and Zorro the next time you are in. At the beginning of the movie when the firing squad is out. Look at the white diagonal straps on them. You will notice ragged edges; I did. Very bad. Then advance to where they are in the cave with thepractice circles. Notice how the shape of the circles change from being circle to anything but. I sure noticed it. I would not spend such amounts for such bad artifacts. Came home and looked at my setup, 100"wide screen, line doubled, no such artifacts. I would not buy such a large screen setup without a line doubling capability. As was mentioned, HDTV is coming and a doubler is a must, even for the progressive scan 480P DVD.
Mtry, I printed out your response and will take it with me the next time I go in for another demo. My initial visit was not done with any critical viewing--just took in the whole enchilada and was imnpressed.
I auditioned a $10,000 somy crt the other day and was not very impressed with the dvd picture--not as sharp as the dlp viewing. I then learned that there was no line doubler attached, so it seems that a t least a doubler is required with a crt projector. One has to draw a price spending limit at some point. There's always beatter out there. I hope to reaudition the dlp within the week and I'll report back.
I believe that when you are doing such a large projection, a line doubler is a must for a good picture. You are increasing the picture size but not the number of scanning lines, something has to give.
I must be dreaming. Did you say you got some new silver wires for that puppy...and you saw a difference? I never said you couldn't see.
Now...what would you say if I told you that you could make a RP look like a
standard CRT by changing the contrast and brightness settings? Well....when "someone" says that you can make a SS amp sound like a tube amp using the tone controls...it's the same thing. So is saying everything sounds the same. No flame, just had to get a grip on reality here as to hear you say something so profoundly correct...is kinda weird.
By the way, what are you using to light up the 100 in screen?
John^^
You know I don't like to brag or list my components, sorry But it starts with an R. I couldn"t resist mentioning the screen size.
Mtry, Sounds like the R stands for Runco, one of the best. The least expensive Runco crt with line doubler that I could find information on is the model DTV-852 for $15000. Sounds like a great system, but is this the price I would have to pay (not counting screen et al) to get the quality, artifact free, hdtv ready performance you are comparing to the $6000 Dream Vision dlp projector?
I got a bargain from a friend in Atlanta. Screen is extra, of course. I guess it will all depend on cost and what you want to compromise on as any purchasing decision. Unfortunately, even with my setup, I have stretched the screen size/throw distance and it decreased the lumens but I wanted a 'large' picture.
Send me an email.
Nothing wrong with telling people what you own. Let's people know where you are coming from....
John^^
Welcome to the site. I'd certainly agree that the projector idea is excellent for preserving the 2 channel setup and getting the BIG picture, but I've never looked at them. Interesting review of the option tho.
> > > > I always felt that Francis was a failure as a moderator on his
site. There's absolutely no reason to allow the garbage flames. < < <
Unfortunately, IMO, he is only interested in page hits and ad displays. If flames increase the count, so much the better. Did he ever moderate at all? The only posts I think he deleted were references to this site, hehehehe ;)
Well, he did ban Annika and TV for a while, no?
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