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"The Twelve" - good court drama

71.203.126.20
Posted on July 22, 2020 at 06:36:55
Victor Khomenko
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 This Belgian/Dutch miniseries has plenty to offer. I like movies, coming from that part of the world - they tend to be somewhat above average, and this one is no exception.

Court/jury dramas can be riveting, and The Twelve delivers in that regard. But two things deserve special mention.

One - their system of justice is quite different from outs, so it is educational to see it in action. I presume the movie accurately portrays the way their system works. There are some major differences with the US one.

And two... there is no simple answer. In fact, the movie leaves you gasping for one... but not finding it. And that is perhaps its strongest point - real life situations tend to be more complicated than the simple black/white division.

All in all, a very rewarding show.


 

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How does it compare to the Henry Fonda old film or Mikhalkov's? , posted on July 22, 2020 at 09:24:48
tinear
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Posts: 65782
Location: Kansas City, KS
Joined: April 9, 2006
 Thanks for the recommendation.

By the way: since I recall you appreciate Bela Tarr, he has very highly praised (and he doesn't go out of his way to do this very often to his fellow directors) the Chinese film by a young man (now deceased, unfortunately): "An Elephant Sitting Still." This film I put under the category of multi-viewing, i.e. it's complexity and synergy cannot be appreciated in one viewing. In one word, it is astonishing.

 

Modern take on the same subject, posted on July 22, 2020 at 10:14:08
Victor Khomenko
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Posts: 55313
Joined: April 5, 2000
 Unlike the old film, that takes place in one room, this one expands well outside the courthouse walls. There is constant interplay between the jurors' personal lives affecting their in-court behavior, and vice versa.

There are also retrospectives.

There is also no identifiable leader, so in some sense it is closer to everyday reality. And of course, as I already mentioned, a very different ending.

Plus, it is 8 or more hours long. We liked it. Ah, and yes, it streams on Netflix.

Yes, I love Tarr, and recently tricked my wife into watching The Man from London - I have seen it before, but enjoyed it.

That Chinese film - where can one see it?

Recently we have been watching many movies on YouTube. We used it before, but this time I realized you could use the internal to smart TV Youtube ap, which makes the whole experience many times better, and gives you very high quality. There are tons of foreign films there, of course many in their native languages.




 

Modern take on the same subject, posted on July 22, 2020 at 10:15:51
Victor Khomenko
Manufacturer

Posts: 55313
Joined: April 5, 2000
 Unlike the old film, that takes place in one room, this one expands well outside the courthouse walls. There is constant interplay between the jurors' personal lives affecting their in-court behavior, and vice versa.

There are also retrospectives.

There is also no identifiable leader, so in some sense it is closer to everyday reality. And of course, as I already mentioned, a very different ending.

Plus, it is 8 or more hours long. We liked it. Ah, and yes, it streams on Netflix.

Yes, I love Tarr, and recently tricked my wife into watching The Man from London - I have seen it before, but enjoyed it.

That Chinese film - where can one see it?

Recently we have been watching many movies on YouTube. We used it before, but this time I realized you could use the internal to smart TV Youtube ap, which makes the whole experience many times better, and gives you very high quality. There are tons of foreign films there, of course many in their native languages.

P.S. Great, found it on Yourtube, in HD, with subtitles!




 

You refer to '12 Angry Men'?, posted on July 22, 2020 at 10:28:56
Billy Wonka
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  Since: October 15, 2013
 I saw recently that back during the good ole days that some CEOs required staff and underlings to watch it for lessons on communication. Never thought about it from that angle.

 

In a very different way, two other Chinese directors have reinvented cinema., posted on July 22, 2020 at 13:08:10
tinear
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Posts: 65782
Location: Kansas City, KS
Joined: April 9, 2006
 Bi Gan's, "Kaili Blues" is indescribable. Is it noir? Then how to account for the absurdly beautiful colors? Is it a drama? Well, where is the plot line?
I think it's a poetic vision (Tarkovsky-like), but also a philosophical one: it functions like no other film in weaving together "present" with dreams and memories. An original work of art, and how often do you find such a thing!

His next film, "Long Day's Journey into Night" is even more mesmerizing. Some characters reappear, though one need pay special attention to recognize them. Both films "make sense" though it takes some effort to do so because of the narrative structure. Of course, you could just enjoy the ride---- and that's what I recommend for the first viewing. The use of sound and music is, again, original.

Diao Yinan's "Black Coal, Thin Ice" is the best whodunit I've seen in many, many years. The style is utterly original (the Chinese simply are ahead of anyone else at this point) and the acting is so natural that it's hard to believe it's not a documentary. No facial tics, unnecessary eye movements, hand gestures--- all those Hollywood crutches one gets to wince at long before their necessary and anticipated appearance.

There is a S. Korean director who also is doing very new things--- but I'll wait for another occasion to bring him up.

 

RE: You refer to '12 Angry Men'?, posted on July 23, 2020 at 05:16:00
tinear
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Posts: 65782
Location: Kansas City, KS
Joined: April 9, 2006
 Henry Fonda as Dale Carnegie?

 

Actually, Dale played Henry. Did well. *, posted on July 23, 2020 at 22:32:01
Billy Wonka
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Joined: April 25, 2013
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  Since: October 15, 2013
 .

 

Tilda Swinton: how did you like her in "Man from London?" , posted on July 24, 2020 at 09:50:37
tinear
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Posts: 65782
Location: Kansas City, KS
Joined: April 9, 2006
 I thought her style of over-the-top emoting and stylistic acting intrusive. Why Tarr agreed to her presence I don't know...

 

"it streams on Netflix", posted on July 25, 2020 at 09:31:36
Chris from Lafayette
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 I can't get "The Twelve" come up on a Netflix search to save my life. So we watched Fear City instead - about the prosecution of Mafia leadership in NYC during the 80's, together with the background as to how the government built its case. Pretty good, we thought.

 

Strange... I just checked, it is there. nt, posted on July 25, 2020 at 16:13:19
Victor Khomenko
Manufacturer

Posts: 55313
Joined: April 5, 2000
 .


 

What does that star signify on your post?, posted on July 25, 2020 at 20:00:51
violinist3
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Posts: 2922
Location: San Diego California
Joined: August 7, 2003
 Nt

 

Me, too. nt, posted on July 26, 2020 at 07:46:54
tinear
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Posts: 65782
Location: Kansas City, KS
Joined: April 9, 2006
 d

 

OK - Thanks to you both! (Very strange on my end!) [nt], posted on July 27, 2020 at 00:43:38
Chris from Lafayette
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  Since: February 6, 2012

 

No text. *, posted on July 27, 2020 at 13:17:27
Billy Wonka
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Posts: 3760
Joined: April 25, 2013
Contributor
  Since: October 15, 2013
 ***

 

OK..less typing *, posted on July 28, 2020 at 06:58:49
violinist3
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Posts: 2922
Location: San Diego California
Joined: August 7, 2003
 **

 

Found it - finally!, posted on July 30, 2020 at 12:01:33
Chris from Lafayette
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Posts: 26422
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: February 17, 2004
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  Since: February 6, 2012
 I was searching on "the twelve", and it would would never come up. Yesterday, I searched on "the 12" and voila! There it was, even though its actual name is. . . "The Twelve". Amazing.

 

Maybe you NF stats aren't showing it to you . . . , posted on August 2, 2020 at 17:33:58
Billy Wonka
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Posts: 3760
Joined: April 25, 2013
Contributor
  Since: October 15, 2013
 I'm still seeing 'Room In Rome' and 'Below Her Mouth' coming up from years ago. (Just kidding. Or am I?)

 

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