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Anyone seeing the Schindler's List HD release in theaters?

115.160.152.66

Posted on December 10, 2018 at 17:33:21
RGA
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Location: Hong Kong
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It has been released only on 1029 screens in North America. If it were released here in Hong Kong I would go.

I saw it 7 times on its initial theatrical release. I think it is only running for 1 week

 

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A kid who works for me..., posted on December 10, 2018 at 20:40:28
mkuller
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...is a real movie buff and went to see it again last weekend.

He said it was still amazing.

I saw an interview recently with Spielberg who talked about making it and said he never thought it would be a commercial success.

Today in the SF Chronicle, movie reviewer Mick LaSalle had an interesting article about seeing it again.

 

RE: A kid who works for me..., posted on December 11, 2018 at 01:34:05
RGA
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Thanks for that link. It still bugs me Ralph Fiennes didn't win for this, or that Embeth Davidtz wasn't at least nominated for best Supporting Actress.

 

Not a good film, but a major, incredibly important work., posted on December 11, 2018 at 11:59:03
Victor Khomenko
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I can't stand Spielberg and his style, I consider him minor director at best, but I am eternally grateful to him for making that film.

Never mind all its weaknesses, the subject carries it through and should leave a deep mark in everyone.

I think it must be studied and discussed in high schools. Some of what goes on there might be missed otherwise. There are thousands of layers to the Holocaust story.

I will not go watch it in theater... and perhaps the work like that should really be seen in a more chamber-like environment, I think its effect is more pronounced that way. My wife refused to see it, and I fully understand her. Her knowledge of the subject and her pain are deep. I too was overcome by emotions at times... even though I am way too aware of those horrors.

Speaking of Holocaust films, I would also strongly recommend French La Rafle, with Jean Reno - consider it a sister film to SL.


 

RE: Not a good film, but a major, incredibly important work., posted on December 12, 2018 at 01:38:43
RGA
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Posts: 15177
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: August 8, 2001
I have been watching a series called Stranger Things where two worlds collide: the world of reality, and the upside down world. It's apparently a fiction.

The more I read your posts and opinions the more I believe that Stranger Things may be based in reality.

I am pleased that you have convinced yourself that anything that is popular must be, by that very happenstance, crap. It must be pleasing to be a Legend - albeit only in your own mind.

 

La Raffle?, posted on December 12, 2018 at 02:19:12
RGA
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Posts: 15177
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: August 8, 2001
Surely not this mess of a motion picture?

"While the film emphasizes that the majority of the deported Jews were eventually murdered, its ending is utterly false and manipulative. Without giving away details, the film mitigates the tragedy by sparing the cutest characters. A viewer who knew nothing of the true events of World War II would think there was a guardian angel that looked out for sweet young children. If you find that proposition more than a little infuriating, then you'd be wise to skip this film." By Hannah Brown


"Director Rose Bosch's intentions seem genuine, but her dramatizations frequently undermine the horrific real-life events on which they're based." Drew Hunt

"A well-meaning but inexpertly dramatized account of the roundup of 13,000 Parisian Jews in the summer of 1942." Jeannette Catsoulis

"The utter hopelessness experienced by European Jewry is never hinted at, and in its way this betrays the Holocaust story." John Anderson

"Bosch bizarrely intercuts scenes of Hitler, Himmler, and Hess working out the logistics of the exportations, in vignettes that smack of Inglourious Basterds farce ..." Andrew Schenker

"A big, sorrowful, dramatically trite period epic about a bleak chapter in the history of modern France." Ty Burr

Alas, the film's other half, involving the back-and-forth between the monstrous Nazis and the weasels of Vichy France over the exact conditions and procedures of the mass arrests, are unconvincing historical re-
enactments. The dialogue is laughably portentous, and if the depictions of Vichy heads Marshal Pétain and Pierre Laval are overly broad, Udo Schenk's raving Adolf Hitler is ridiculous, an unintentionally comic sideshow that makes clear Bosch's mistake in aspiring for grand-scale sweep over the wrenching, personal tragedies of Vel d'Hiv. Stan Hall



Yes this is Victor's idea of a better film with a much better director lol. I swear I am going to see Eleven at the grocery store stealing Eggos tomorrow.

 

RE: Not a good film, but a major, incredibly important work., posted on December 12, 2018 at 05:04:25
Victor Khomenko
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LOL! And all this just because I called your piece of crappy music crap? :)

Boy, payback IS a bitch! :)


 

No... not La Raffffffffffffffffffffffffffffle. , posted on December 12, 2018 at 05:06:27
Victor Khomenko
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Posts: 55319
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La Rafle. :)

Are you quoting yourself now? :)


 

Thx for posting that; I enjoyed it. I bought the 20th-anniversary..., posted on December 12, 2018 at 10:56:47
jeffreybehr
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...Blu and watched that but just ordered the UHD.

 

I have felt for a very long time that . . ., posted on December 12, 2018 at 12:30:21
Billy Wonka
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October 15, 2013
This should be required viewing for all eigth and ninth graders so they can understand true discrimination, slavery, and genocide. Kids are taught by their parents about how.bad they have it and Schindler's List helps to set that straight. Maybe a mediocre film but an important lesson on man's inhumanity to man. The film transcends the Jewish plight to show us what we are all capable of in our hearts and minds. Kids need a hard slap to understand how good they have it and this is it.

 

What we really need is..., posted on December 12, 2018 at 13:22:13
Victor Khomenko
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...good, detailed documentaries on that subjects. One film, however important, is not going to create the sense of awareness in your people. It only gets developed through relentless repetition - something my generation was subjected to day in and day out. While done for totally wrong political reason, and while hiding the real truth of Jewish Holocaust, it still provided fertile ground for future learning.

We simply don't have anything like that here.


 

RE: Not a good film, but a major, incredibly important work., posted on December 13, 2018 at 23:49:50
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 15177
Location: Hong Kong
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LOL - nah you like to dump on everyone elses likes and state your opinions as objective FACTS. Then you bring up a counter film that is likely to have been unseen by most people and because nobody saw it and because it is foreign you THINK you can get away with coming off as a supremely knowledgeable film expert. As if watching a lot of foreign films makes you an expert. Bwahahaha.


I know you are a second rate audio manufacturer without much in his life 46800+ posts on AA most of which seem contained to talking about movies. Odd for a *cough* "supposed" high end 2 channel audio amp maker (if Push Pull, Torroids and the bloody KT88 output tube (the inbred cousin in Deliverance of the tube world) can ever be called anything above middling.

No wonder that music was "soulless" to you - It's impossible to hear SOUL in second rate amplification.

Now that is an LOL






 

RE: What we really need is..., posted on December 14, 2018 at 01:01:33
RGA
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Repetition instills rote learning - good for multiplication tables and spelling and grammar practice.

The ARTS has the overarching role to create INTEREST in a subject for students/children or adults to then go and critically think about a subject. Boring ass documentaries on the holocaust existed in schools for decades. And yes they will "teach more facts" about the holocaust than Schindler's List. But that's not really surprising is it?

You should not bloody well be learning all your facts from movie or TV screens - it's called books - pick some up sometime.

The ARTS are often commentary of the sociopolitical climate of their time - and yes by the bloody way, that includes a lot of Hollywood films.

Shakespeare, Dickens, Dostoevsky, Miller would all be called Social Justice Warrior Snowflakes in 2018! merely presenting an actual injustice even when 100% factually proven means you are an SJW.

And THAT is why Spielberg triumphs as a director because he was smart enough to choose the source material where he could lift the subject matter out of memorization of facts and INVERT the subject matter.

Kenneally's novel was a bottle in the ocean until the film came about. Schindler's List - NOT Lanzmann's Shoah or any other Holocaust film "helped to inspire national educational curriculum changes, the growth of Holocaust degree programmes, the institution of an annual remembrance day in the United Kingdom and the setting up of museums and memorials across the globe."

And WHY? Because Schindler's List had a profound affect on film goers at the time and is often cited as one of the ten best films in history - please show me the list where actual intelligent professionals in the movie industry have chosen the La Rafle. My extra F was subconsciously awarding it it's deserved letter grade!

There are endless critiques - good ones - that can and should be made about Schindler's List - one of the better ones is from Kubrick and Lantzmann who both more or less said

"The Holocaust is about six million people who get killed. Schindler's List is about 600 who don't."

But that is just it - all the largely failed, uninspiring, and most importantly UNSEEN films (and if you want to teach people history through film - they first have to bloody well see it) is that you have to take your film making prowess and create something of - well - a Hollywood Blockbuster!

And to do that you need a protagonist. It is far better to tell any of these kinds of stories through character. I have read most of the criticisms of the film and most all of them fall flat.

The mistake all of these "critics" got wrong is that the story was actually about the power that one person can wield when he values something other than the almighty dollar. It is not a "Holocaust Movie" about the "Holocaust" - It doesn't ram the Holocaust High School lesson down the audience's throats - been there and failed at that!

Other criticisms should have been leveled at the book - I remember laughing at the dimwits who hate Spielberg - "the girl in the Red coat is Spielberg and Hollywood manipulation" - I am quite sure you were first in line with that correct.

Only in Schindler's Ark - the real life Oscar Schindler sat on his horse and gravitated to a small girl in a red coat!!!!

Oh wait - it wasn't a Spielberg ploy after all - it was a recounting of a REAL very likely plausible motivation for Oscar Schindler to decide to DO SOMETHING.

Guess the morons never bother to pick up a F-ing book.

Fortunately one of the most vocal critics against the film re watched it without the fanatical hatred of Steven. Umm but she still needs to read the book and the actual historical Oscar Schindler and Amon Goeth.

Regardless of the historical minutia - that is largely the point of any Historical drama - to get people interested in the subject to learn more. No film of this duration can possibly have the breadth and depth to encapsulate the time frame of events. Schindler's List probably is responsible for a vast number of people renting Shoah or for a film producers to even allow a film like La Rafle or The Pianist even being green lit to get made.

You may not realize this - but even your beloved non Hollywood artsy fartsy nonsense - have backers who ONLY give money to MAKE money - they are greedy soulless pigs in it to make a buck - but since they barely have two coins to rub together they MUST make a movie on a million bucks and you can bet that just like Disney - they want to double their investment. They're not making your precious French/Hungarian/Belarusian love story because they love movies - they are producing them for the exact same reason porn directors make porn movies - they want to make money!

Hollywood goes for the biggest audience - porn industry goes for the horny masses and the niche art-house market focuses on the folks who hate the other two. you aren't smarter or better (as you think you are) than the people who line up to see Deadpool. You are just PLAYED by a "different" money grubbing producer who finds and artsy way to impress a different sort of sheep.

Leave It to Spielberg: A Critic Revisits 'Schindler's List'
By Lisa Rosman

 

I don't want to be a part of this argument, but...//, posted on December 14, 2018 at 05:46:11
MaxwellP
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You do make some good points. I am always suspicious of people who can only see "high art" in objects that are wrapped in the obvious garments of high art. Popular culture--particularly Hollywood--is capable of cranking out vast amounts of soulless, emotionless garbage, but amongst the dregs there is still the occasional film that celebrates writing, acting, directing, editing, music, etc.

To compartmentalise your taste for only those films that are all dressed up in art house filigree is to censor content needlessly. The joys and rewards of filmaking can be found in many different places.

 

I was actually very surprised how easy it was..., posted on December 14, 2018 at 06:58:26
Victor Khomenko
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Posts: 55319
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...to get under your super-thin skin. I think you need to grow an extra layer, because that music was indeed mindless crap. :)


 

RE: I don't want to be a part of this argument, but...//, posted on December 14, 2018 at 08:00:07
Victor Khomenko
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Posts: 55319
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***Popular culture--particularly Hollywood--is capable of cranking out vast amounts of soulless, emotionless garbage, but amongst the dregs there is still the occasional film that celebrates writing, acting, directing, editing, music, etc. Popular culture--particularly Hollywood--is capable of cranking out vast amounts of soulless, emotionless garbage, but amongst the dregs there is still the occasional film that celebrates writing, acting, directing, editing, music, etc.***

Like it or not, but the proportion of garbage to good work in Hollywood production has changed dramatically over the decades. Therefore, while we LOVE and watch as many good old Hollywood films as we can locate (difficult task...), I simply refuse to waste my time digging through the piles of current garbage. Life is too short. I would rather spend it watching good films.

I do read the discussions of current films here, and I sometimes follow the recommendations of those participants, whose opinions I value, but the modern pickings among the US production are incredibly slim. :)


 

RE: What we really need is..., posted on December 14, 2018 at 11:26:32
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"Other criticisms should have been leveled at the book - I remember laughing at the dimwits who hate Spielberg - "the girl in the Red coat is Spielberg and Hollywood manipulation" - I am quite sure you were first in line with that correct.

Only in Schindler's Ark - the real life Oscar Schindler sat on his horse and gravitated to a small girl in a red coat!!!!

Oh wait - it wasn't a Spielberg ploy after all - it was a recounting of a REAL very likely plausible motivation for Oscar Schindler to decide to DO SOMETHING."


Nevertheless, I for one felt that, in the context of the film, "the little girl in red" was an extremely manipulative technique. This was confirmed when I overheard a couple of folks talking about that scene as they left the theater - "Ooh! Did you see what he did there?" Yes, those folks can congratulate themselves that they have the deep insight to notice such things!

Quite often, with Spielberg's films, I just wince at the all-too-obvious attempts to manipulate the audience's emotions. It's as if Spielberg has never heard of "the art which conceals the art". Although I do like a couple of his films, it's too difficult to get past the manipulation in most of them - in such scenes, I see merely the dollar signs flashing before his eyes! ;-)

 

Subtlety is not Spielberg's strong suit , posted on December 14, 2018 at 12:23:18
Victor Khomenko
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He prefers to hit the viewer on the head with a hammer - even if a very old and tired, long ineffective hammer. SL is overloaded with such manipulation. If I were to mention just one - the latrine hiding scene.

The first time I read about such ordeal was probably back in 1962 in one of the Russian books. Back then it generated strong response. But since then, and upon numerous repetition of this idea in many works, I developed strong distaste for that cheap tool. So when the boy went into the outhouse I almost screamed to myself: "Please, not another one!"

But as I mentioned above - I do not see this film as a work of art, but rather an imperfect witness report. For all its faults it hopefully generates the awareness, that is so sorely lacking today.


 

RE: I don't want to be a part of this argument, but...//, posted on December 14, 2018 at 20:29:10
RGA
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The thing is though that in the west - we tend to get the cream of the crop from foreign countries - so the films that get a DVD release in the US and Canada are often the Cannes winners and nominees - we don't get the 500 films released in Poland in 2017 - we get the ten "good" ones if even that - the absolute horrific rubbish was sifted out FOR US.

Rinse and Repeat for every other country around the world - Bollywood I believe puts out more films than Hollywood - and yet how many of those films get any sort of press in the west - 5-6?

So people dump on Hollywood - yes because EVERY Hollywood film comes to our theaters and out of 20 of those movies - 1 might be considered good.

There is a difference though because films have different goals - just as music or any other form of the arts.

In the play/theater there are the 6 Aristotelian elements of the arts and much of Hollywood focuses on what Aristotle would view as the least important element - spectacle. So all these big loud marvel movies.

The mistake is dismissing them simply because "spectacle" is at the fore.

It's fine to like films that focus on character or theme etc.

And then there is subject matter - When comedy is judged against drama or horror - individuals place a hierarchy on the value that each genre possess. For years Drama was seen as more important than comedy - Shakespearea's Tragedies get more weight than his comedies. Romeo and Juliet often considered Shakespeare's worst play is the one that is taught mostly to students and usually the first play that is introduced.

Hollywood and Television through the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s was escapist entertainment - an escape from reality. Music was more thought provoking. That has been flipped - music is generally mindless background noise and television some movies are lot richer and deeper.

In the 1980s you had stuff like the Rockford Files now you have "enter your favorite Netflix/HBO" show - Broadchurch or Breaking Bad or whatever - None of that existed in the 80s.

And it's difficult to look back on even some classic films and see the acting quality in the 1950s and 1960s and the written dialog and not role my eyes - Casablanca or Citizen Kane or 8 1/2 - etc. The perspective you have at 75years old and 45 years old and 20 years old on these classics will very likely be different. It's tough to watch the stilted performances and some laughable dialog and in some cases unrelated to modern reality when watching any of these older films with a current eye.

Plays can be re-imagined and re-interpreted - film can't. No matter how great the film. And spectacle films that rely on spectacle have the least shelf life because the technology advances and the greatest special effects films of the 1940s look ridiculous now. So for those films to hold up - like Jaws - it doesn't hold up because of the stupid looking shark. In fact the fact that the shark didn't work - probably saved that film from obscurity. It still sells today and it still works today because of its dramatic elements.

I like all kinds of films and I like all kinds of music because I recognize what the intent of the genre is about. A horror movie is suppose to generate some tension and some scares - similar to why anyone gets on a roller coaster. Victor and people like him likely view amusements parks as a waste of space for the unwashed masses - dummies want to have some thrills in their life.

So it goes.

 

RE: I was actually very surprised how easy it was..., posted on December 14, 2018 at 21:21:37
RGA
Reviewer

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Location: Hong Kong
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See you seem to think I care if you liked the film Schindler's List or the music of Hiromi - actually that doesn't matter.

You see - I was lucky because I had quality parents and education and was taught that it is generally a good idea that if I don't have something nice to say to not say anything.

For instance - a few people liked Hiromi's musicianship and then you come in with - that sucks. So what is it that you GAIN from that? Gaining friends and influencing people?

The only thing that serves is to increase your post count and to make someone else feel bad because you are insulting that person's taste in music and movies.

This requires a degree of tact and class which is missing in large sections of America these days.

The fact is Hiromi's genre of jazz will not be liked by lots of people just as Talyor Swift or Mahler won't be liked by lots of people.

The post wasn't "what do you think of Hiromi?" - if that had been the question rip away. It was a post enthusiastically recommending a musician that you decided to dump on. The same intent of the SL thread.

No. It's not my cup of tea.

versus

It's a bad movie and thus the posters in the thread who like it are fools.

See it's a passive aggressive insult. Perhaps English is not your first language.

And I say this in all seriousness but insulting people who know where to find you isn't generally the brightest of ideas. I don't say that as any sort of threat - but I have met some people on the internet and forums over the years that have threatened my life for not liking some sort of amplifier or because of some comments on politics or the military.

So I say this because while I may have a thinner skin about passive aggressive insults - you may one day say this to some whack-jobs on a forum who take things too far. It's up to you - but I am just passing on to you my direct experiences and noting that because you and I use our real names we run more risk with what we say on the internet. I have been approached at Audio Shows by people on audio forums and I am not stationary like a manufacturer or dealer.

And again you don't like Hiromi's music or think Simon Philips is a horribly untalented drummer - that's totally fine. I mean I am not Simon Philips - I think he's happy and has more money than I will ever have having been performed and recorded with a wide array of musicians including Big Jim Sullivan, Pete Townshend, Big Country, Toto, Steve Lukather and Los Lobotomys (Candyman), Jeff Beck, Whitesnake, Jack Bruce, David Gilmour, Frank Zappa,[5] Brian Eno, Duncan Browne, Toyah, Mike Oldfield, Jon Anderson, Bonnie Tyler, Trevor Rabin, Gary Moore, 10cc, Mick Jagger, PhD, Joe Satriani, Russ Ballard, Mike Rutherford, Phil Manzanera, John Wetton, flamenco guitarist Juan Martin, Asia, Stanley Clarke, Jimmy Earl, Derek Sherinian, Nik Kershaw, Gordon Giltrap, Camel, Jordan Rudess, Tears For Fears and The Who.

So like I tells people - it doesn't much matter whether any individual likes or doesn't like something. I don't like Brussels Sprouts but I can't say they are a BAD vegetable. I can say I don't like them.

This sort of jazz will never be popular with the mainstream. I get it. But heck even a moth was attracted to Hiromi @8:30

 

RE: What we really need is..., posted on December 14, 2018 at 21:45:26
RGA
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Location: Hong Kong
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why would some total stranger's conversation confirm jack squat to you though?

I get the argument but that's just it - it's an argument not a fact. The choice the director made was to follow the source material and the fact that the girl in the red coat was to quote

"Ligocka said in a Guardian interview that "the girl in the red coat in the film is a symbol of all the children killed during the Nazi regime. In Poland alone, 1.5 million were murdered. The experiences of the film character and mine are identical, with one important difference — I survived."

This in my opinion is a far higher form of ART to make your point without words in a fairly short segment of the film to encapsulate what happened to children during the holocaust - and to NOT sugar coat with the happy ending where she lives. Because the vast majority didn't live.
Your argument is a fair one - but like mine - it's just that an opinion. I don't find using the source material manipulative or driving home the fact that children were slaughtered on masse. I don't find matter of fact TRUTH to be manipulative.

 

Not to draw this out unnecessarily. . . , posted on December 15, 2018 at 11:19:03
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. . . because I have not read the book and you have, but I must ask: in the book, was the girl in red described as standing out from her black and white surroundings? Because that's what Spielberg hits his viewers over the head with - or so it seems to me. He could have filmed the whole movie (or at least just the whole scene) in color, and gradually focused in on on the girl in red - to me, that would have been SO much more effective! But, no, he seemed to want to play the artiste at this point - to the detriment of the scene, because it gets viewers thinking about his "wonderful" technique, rather than what he's trying convey - at least IMHO.

 

Shakespeare, Dickens, Dostoevsky, Miller would all be called, posted on December 15, 2018 at 17:39:50
...misogynists, racists, xenophobes and ughh NATIONALISTS!

The SJW's are today what brown-shirts were in 1932.

 

You forgot Judas Priests' Sin After Sin.nt., posted on December 15, 2018 at 21:54:55
jamesgarvin
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nt

 

RE: I don't want to be a part of this argument, but...//, posted on December 16, 2018 at 05:15:24
MaxwellP
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"Hollywood and Television through the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s was escapist entertainment - an escape from reality. Music was more thought provoking. That has been flipped - music is generally mindless background noise and television some movies are lot richer and deeper."

Many good points in what you say, though I would soften the stress a bit on the above quote. Television has transformed recently because it has freed itself from advertising via Netflix, HBO, etc. I don't think all Hollywood films from the 1950s through the 1980s were escapist. In fact, I think some very good films were made for adult audiences. The target age for most Hollywood films today is about 16.

As for music, well, there has always been commercial garbage, but for those who search, there has always been quality performances. Not so sure anything has flipped.

I have a long-time aquaintance who likes to think of himself as an educated snob. His attitude, however, only serves to put blinders on him and limit his exposure. In the end, he doesn't even have what I would call an inquiring mind. He relies on the same tropes and conventions over and over, and snubs his noise at anything that might challenge that.

 

RE "good, detailed documentaries" - May I Suggest Lanzmann's 'Shoah', for one? (nt), posted on December 16, 2018 at 13:06:24
goldenthal
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n

 

Thank you! , posted on December 16, 2018 at 13:31:05
Victor Khomenko
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I added it to our queue. I know my wife will not want to see it, and I can't blame her. But I would certainly want to see it.

Will mention it to our friends.


 

RE Your Wife: Indeed, one needs fortitude and intent to watch it . . ., posted on December 16, 2018 at 13:49:53
goldenthal
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but I don't think there's anything else quite like it.

Available from Criterion: 566 minutes.


Jeremy

 

She already knows way too much about that history, posted on December 16, 2018 at 14:22:33
Victor Khomenko
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Including the fact that her father spent years in nazi camps and finally escaped. Her grandparents all vanished.


 

566 minutes - it's pretty epic, posted on December 16, 2018 at 17:57:21
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PBS showed it one year (multiple nights) - that's how I saw it.

 

LOL! Really..., posted on December 16, 2018 at 20:32:45
mkuller
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...not the Trumpster's base?

And they wouldn't recognize the names you posted.

 

Netflix has it, posted on December 17, 2018 at 06:17:48
Victor Khomenko
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I don't enjoy watching such documentaries, but I consider them important, even for someone who already has good familiarity with the subject. One should not consider history "boring", especially that important part of it.

I still remember how many people stated they learned a lot about WWII from Saving Private Ryan... that was frightening.


 

RE: Not to draw this out unnecessarily. . . , posted on December 17, 2018 at 08:12:19
RGA
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Location: Hong Kong
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The girl in red was pronounced in the book and since it's a book there is no colour versus black and white.

If the real Oscar Schindler in fact saw a girl in a red coat and this was his pivotal moment of decision to act - then it's rather a vital part of the book - and if you make a black and white film - there is no way to see Red without using red. It was not the only colour scene in the film anyway - there was a candle scene where the candle was in colour as well.

And since this scene is one of the most remembered by people who loved the movie - often chosen as a cover - well perhaps Steven was fortunate to follow Keneally's novel.

Spielberg filmed in black and white because Spielberg felt the "film should be drained of colour to reflect the draining of life during the holocaust."

To me it's a strength of film making when he can represent all the children of the holocaust and their slaughter in mere minutes in high impact while at the same time providing a possible motivation for Schindler all without a single word of dialog or narrative explanation.

The first 4 minutes of this video has the explanation of why that scene is in the movie - And you can really only debate these things. Spielberg had a valid reason to do it - I think it worked and unfortunately - if it was an art house director who did it I suspect no one would say anything about it - but like in audio people have lots of expectation bias.

 

Started watching "Einsatzgruppen: The Nazi Death Squads" on Netflix, posted on December 19, 2018 at 06:35:50
Victor Khomenko
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Chilling, and contains some facts that I didn't know. Especially the Holocaust dynamics during the first weeks of the Barbarossa.

One problem with it - it is French production, so there is French voice, English subs - which is generally fine, unless there is English speaker - then there are three ways you need to keep track of. The English guy starts talking, you lock onto him, but then his voice goes down, being replaced by a French one, and you need to switch to the subs. Affects your being absorbed into the film.

I strongly recommend that one.


 

RE: What we really need is , posted on December 20, 2018 at 18:07:44
Wojciech
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to remember that there were tens of millions of OTHER nations citizens who were murdered by Germans in the concentrations camps.
Steven Spielberg is a skilled director but also a propagandist hack.
He is a Mcdonald's of a movie world. Not that I don't admire his skill and don't watch his movies.

 

RE: What we really need is , posted on December 21, 2018 at 01:37:14
RGA
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This is a rather small story in a much larger picture - one of many Holocaust stories - if you want the complete history of the holocaust and a story of every single person from every single country and a full accounting of each - it ain't coming from a single film or a from a single documentary.

It's like Anne Frank's Diary - this is a TINY story and a drop in the bucket perspective.

A vastly deeper in depth diary of events would come from Viktor Klemperor "I Will Bear witness" But he was an old man and professor - not a pretty young girl - less sympathy I guess.

Damn that Anne Frank - using her own death as propaganda to pull at heart strings.

 

RE: What we really need is , posted on December 21, 2018 at 14:13:28
Victor Khomenko
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There was fundamental difference. While many other people indeed died in the camps, none of those other groups was subject of Final Solution. Simply put - there was no extermination goal set for them. There is some evidence regarding somewhat similar objective towards the Gypsies, about 200,000 of them also perished - out of roughly 1 million who lived in Europe.

Yes, millions (not tens of millions) died of hunger, disease, hard labor and abuse, we should not take those sufferings lightly. But Jews were very special target.

Spielberg naturally picked the subject - I have no issue with that. While I do not consider him skillful director, that part is a personal viewpoint. The importance of that film should not be seen in the same way we consider, for instance, La Strada. It has certain and voluable documentary quality to it.


 

RE: What we really need is , posted on December 21, 2018 at 18:59:25
Wojciech
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I stand corrected. It's somewhat difficult to get the total numbers of deaths in all Nazi concentration camps by nation.
Yes , the movie is touching and it has its place.


I prefer somewhat less idealized style, something like "The Pianist" Polanskiego.

 

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