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In Reply to: Re: War film recommendations posted by Collin on January 14, 2000 at 05:38:27:
Since the original request was not clear as far as what he was looking for in the war movie, I guess just about anything goes (that is why Ryan is probably going to make it on the list).There are two basic ways to get someone's attention. One is to hit him on the head with a hammer. Hollywood is good at that and that approach does, indeed, get attention. We shall leave it at that for a moment.
Another one is to speak softly in a loud room (it also impies that you are saying somentihg meanigful...). Good masters of crowd control have been practicing it for centuries with great results. Unlike the first approach, this one requires true skills and good examples rarely can be found.
I am not going to comment much on the Ryan piece that I consider an offensive junk (it is what a Cadillac with gold trim and leopard interior is to fine automobile design), with Platoon being just one step behind, but there are fine movies in the second category too. Full Metal Jacket yes (that one sort of crosses the chasm), Das Boot without any questions, Paths of Glory, Grand Illusion, The Tale of a Soldier, and my all-time favorite, The Forbidden Games.
Paths Of Glory, an outstanding portrayal of cruelty in time of war - the Ant Hill?. Also Breaker Morant, and let's not forget...Stalag 17. Not as yet mentioned.
...an absolutely top-notch movie.Couldn't disagree stronger on the Stalag. Turns my stomach upside down even thinking about it. My father-in-law survived (and escaped from) the German concentration camp, hosed with cold water in a -20 degree temperatures, so Stalag strikes me as a cheap whore trick.
Where I come from, no one jokes about camps, either Hitler's or Stalin's.
Don't care much for it either. That's why it wasn't on my favorite list.
Although I do like Full Metal Jacket.
Speilberg always tsruck me as a man who's desparately trying to meld Capra schmoltz & credible authenticity. Unfortunately, more oft than not, seems to fail on both aspects. he ought to hire Dreyfuss as an advisor.
It's encouraging to know that I'm not the only one who finds the Speilberg style obvious and anti-cinema. The clumsy "dramatic" opening in "Private Ryan" with the American flag and the aging Ryan visiting the grave markers is just one example. Contrast that to the ominous Aligator slinking into the swamp in "Thin Red Line" (a flawed film but wonderfully so) and you have the whole dilemna of the state of today's cinema in a nutshell. Those of you who at least enjoyed some of the battle scenes in Ryan should know that much of their style and energy can be found in some of the best of the "Combat" TV series of the 1960s. Some of the episodes are remarkable in their authenticity (M1 rifles, B.A.R.s, Thompsons) and in their portrayal of the madness of war. I can think of at least a dozen episodes (some of two-part, epic length) that best Ryan. Some of these episodes are on video.
Certainly people can disagree, but it was unfortunate that the Platoon had stolen the bang from the FMJ. If I remember it right, it preceeded it by about three month - enough to blow a big hole in the anticipation.Personally I didn't think the Platoon was too bad, it had some good moments and I liked Dafoe's (sp) job - I like him in general. Plus good choice of music.
However, in a purely artistic sense the FMJ seems to be in a different league. While perhaps not Kubrick's greatest work, it certainly had his style imprinted all over the place. Unfortunately, it was largely taken for what it was not primarily - a Vietnam war movie. Surely it can be considered as such, but it is much greater than that in my view. His movies are usually artistic enough to be considered separate from the subject. Lesser works (Platoon, for instance) have less to offer in that department and limp badly without the subject crutch. Take from this perspective, Ryan is so bad that without the subject that touches everybody (a truly opportunistic move on part of the master speculator Spielberg) there is just trash and mediocre-to-horrible (one can only consider as extra-super-horrible such stints as constipated-baboon-like pace of Mr. Ryan-the-Elder at Arlington - a true disgrace to acting profession) acting left.
So, agree with you one the FMJ. Especialy the first part, a true gem of relentless surrealism.
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