Films/DVD Asylum

here's a spectrum

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In Reply to: Re: you mean aside from Cagney movies? [nt posted by edta on April 06, 2000 at 20:57:32:

1) "Angels With Dirty Faces" (of course, "the" noir flick
2) "Fighting 69th" (is a WWI flick w/ a noir quality
3) "Bride Came C.O.D." (noir, it aint but is also a Cagney must I'd recommend it higher than "Mr.Roberts" & that's saying something IMHO

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Re: here's a spectrum edta 21:23:31 04/08/00 (1)
Thanks for the picks. I guess I need to see Angels..
I may have seen the fighting 69th. If it's the one I saw, I did like it.
- I'm sure you've seen them both .... Mart 22:42:08 04/08/00 (0)
  ... they can haunt you with dark sense of salvation.
  Bride came C.O.D. is a jaunty romantic comedy flick with an awkward style worthy of Cagney. In fact, it's the only Bette Davis film I own. Click on the pictures for descriptons.
dunno if they 'qualify' for the category. kuma 10:45:58 04/08/00 (11)
Although the 'film noir (dark film in French) started in the late 30's in France, the genre in the US film did not blossom till 40s.
Usualy with moody/high contrast cinematography with lots of downbeat/corny characters such as Sam Spade in the Maltese Falcon often parodied in urban settings.
For notable Cagney film in this genre, I'd say 'White Heat' ("Made it ma! top of the world!) fits the bill.
some of my favorite include:
Laura ( great score by David Raksin, BTW) 1944
Mildred Pierce aka my mother, a waitress! 1945
Gilda 1946
Notorious 1946
Pastman always rings twice 1946 ( also Nicholson/lang version in 1981)
DOA 1950 ( lame remake to follow later )
Crossfire 1947
Ace in the hole 1951
Sweet Smell of success 1957
Big Heat 1953
Killing 1956
Cape Fear 1962 ( again, the origianl Mitchum/Peck version has more impact than DeNiro remake,imho)
Manchurian Candidate 1962
There was a trend in 70s to bring back the film noir such as Chinatown, Taxi driver etc..( excellent films in thier own right) but alas, somehow, they just dont have the same 'feel' as the rest of the ealier greats.
- adore the 3D edge the shadey characters provide, but ... Mart 21:12:39 04/08/00 (2)
  ... I never cared for those subset of films made though. By that I mean where the slime of humanity profits of from others misery as glamorous MO. There are plenty of enticing dark films that don�t preach such a defeatist messege. My penny anyway.
  - Re: adore the 3D edge the shadey characters provide, but ... edta 21:32:30 04/08/00 (1)
    Maybe I'm too old and cynical, but I've found it to be quite common for the slime of humanity to profit from the misery of others. I'm not sure I agree that noir makes this "glamorous", pitiful, at times, perhaps.
    I'm sure just seeing the dark side makes some uncomfortable. And there were a lot of schlocky, B movie, exploitation types of films along these lines, don't think I'd go as far as classifying them as noir though.
    - don't limit the schlocky to the B movies Mart 21:52:24 04/08/00 (0)
      today there are "desperado", "assassins" & "pulp ficton" poluting the theatres with lame predictable plots & 1D characters to snooze over.
- Re: dunno if they 'qualify' for the category. edta 16:20:49 04/08/00 (4)
  Moody high contrast scenes with characters who are losers in stories about The dark underbelly of American life.
  What do you think is involved in the "feel"? Perhaps a sense of desperation, perhaps, futility in the story? The antihero? Going for that big win that will make everything worthwhile? Being shot in black and white? Being shot mainly at night?
  And your comment about French films, any French or foreign films you like in this genre?
  - Re: dunno if they 'qualify' for the category. kuma 22:59:08 04/08/00 (3)
    A film noir 'feeling' is elusive something. Bit like try to explain a 'communicative' two channel system. They are equaly vague. :-)
    There are certainly familiar ingredients to make a film noir film as you've suggested in your post. A story about ugly people doing nasty things to other people. Always with strong chracter study/observation. Sometime, it can be voy
    I don't think they have to be shot in black & white per se. Perhaps, my preference of B&W films over the colour films make the neo-film noir in 70s to date unauthentic. Addition of colour make the scene too real for my taste.
    Most film-noir should have artificial feel to it. I can even forgive a few flaw in script sometimes from its striking visual style. No, it does not have to be shot in the night time to achieve necesarry atmosphere.
    As for French film noir, Marcel Carne's Jour Se Leve(1939) or try Port of Shadows(1938) both starring Jean Gabin.
    - realism vs. art edta 08:54:37 04/09/00 (2)
      You are on to something about artfulness and artificiality being essential to the great films of this genre. "Making the scene too real" is not the best noir. I guess that could extend from b and w, to outlandish dialog & characters, unusual camera angles, etc., etc. Think Dr. Strangelove would classify as noir? Never even thought of that one before.
      I'm compiling a list from a book I just read. Not sure if it would be boring. I know I could use it for my own future viewing. BTW, it includes just about every film you mentioned and is mainly "classic" noir from the 40's and 50's.
      - it's black allright, but... kuma 11:15:04 04/09/00 (1)
        
        In Reply to: realism vs. art posted by edta on April 09, 2000 at 08:54:37:
        
        I'd say Dr. Strange Love is more of a 'black' comedy.
        I laughed my ass off watching it. Even though the film is highly stylised (both in script and cinematography), does not belong in film noir category.
        The Fail Safe with Fonda (almost simulteniously released has a similar plot line as the Dr. Strange Love) might be closer.
        
        Re: it's black allright, but... edta 11:59:22 04/09/00 (0)
        
        In Reply to: it's black allright, but... posted by kuma on April 09, 2000 at 11:15:04:
        
        A great masterpiece & classic.
- Wow! The classic list. Thanks! edta 11:52:26 04/08/00 (2)
  Man, you've got some excelllent picks on here. Some unfamiliar ones I really want to see now and some oldies I want to see again. "The Killing", that's Kubrick, right, with Sterling Hayden and the cringing Elisha? Got to get on the library website and see if I can order some of these.
  - Re: Wow! The classic list. Thanks! kuma 16:23:01 04/08/00 (1)
    Yeah. Elisha Cook Jnr was indeed great in this pot boiler.
    This film, IMHO, is one of the best Kubrik ever did. Makes you wonder WTF he was thinking during the production of "Eyes Wide Shut"
    Have you ever seen the Asphalt Jungle (1950) which is a precurser to the Killing also starring Sterling Hayden. ( and of course, very young Marilyn Monroe)
    This film is filled with such a delicious line such as ' Crime is a left-handed form of human endeavour. 'muttered by Sam Jaffe
    - Re: Wow! The classic list. Thanks! edta 21:06:18 04/08/00 (0)
      This is a must for me. You're the second one on this thread to recommend it! Thanks!
      Yes, EWS, is a bomb. I'm still wondering if Kubrick had not finished it when he died. He was meticulous to the point of madness. It is difficult to believe that what I saw was what he intended.

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