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In Reply to: RE: Antony Beevor: the greatest war movie ever - and the ones I can't bear posted by Eldragon on May 31, 2018 at 09:14:40
Man, does that question ever capture the essence of things - especially these days, where one man's truth is another's propaganda!
...only one can be true.
However, my take is that often, alternate facts are just that: facts that are presented on one source and ignored by another (and vice versa). Often, it's a question of emphasis or (in)completeness.
...facts are verifiable.
"Alternate facts" - the term made popular by KA Conway - are propaganda designed to reinforce people's mistaken opinions.
In other words, "untruths".
I agree that facts are verifiable - and alternate facts are sometimes verifiable too, sometimes not (in which case they are not facts!).
But sometimes, actual facts support positions and opinions we don't agree with - does that make these particular facts propaganda?
...of course people have been making up "alternative facts" forever so let's take an example:
"3 to 5 million voted illegally in the 2016 presidential election."
Fact, alternative fact, untruth,or propaganda?
Pick any 3.
And in any case, that's not really what I was talking about. My point was that there are actual, verifiable facts which may not support one's beliefs, and it's not OK simply to dismiss this information as propaganda, no matter where it comes from.
...it's important to constantly challenge your "beliefs" with facts, whether you like them or not.
So the only "alternative facts" are the made-up ones.
Propaganda is usually not factual but intended to mislead.
Alternative facts can be every bit as verifiable as "non-alternative" facts - otherwise, they aren't facts at all.
What is perceived as propaganda can also be highly factual - it just depends on the methodology of the propagandist. Many things are labeled as propaganda, when they're simply alternative points of view, supported by a different set of (actual) facts.
> Alternative facts can be every bit as verifiable as "non-alternative" facts - otherwise, they aren't facts at all.>
"Alternative facts" used in its current context are not real facts.
They are made up to support someone's narrative.
There can be only one provable truth, all else is untrue. Just as people who lie can no longer be called honest.
Your example sounds more like a partisan TV debate more than something where facts are established to advance understanding, perhaps to solve a common problem.
The historian can complain all he wants, cinema was never intended to write history. Might as well complain that a cow is not a pig.
You say that there can be only one provable truth. Well. . . sure. But, depending on what one's source is for "The News", one may not be getting the whole picture, IOW, the WHOLE truth. If you watch or read "The News" from various sources, you may come away with a much different perspective than if your news derives only from a single source - even though that single source may, in itself, may be perfectly true. It's the incompleteness that could leave a false impression, even though what's presented from any given single source may itself be factually correct.
...that's why it's important to get news from more than one reliable source so you can triangulate the real picture.
Reliable means factual - not necessarily that it agrees with your own biases.
But that's OK - my wife is a bit like that! ;-)
...the y-axis of the graph it discusses veracity (factualness).
Or if you go here and put your news source in, you can learn its bias and how factual it is.
In case you didn't know :-)
Then I understood you intention well, you were talking about TV news. Comparing multiple sources is always a good method for discerning the truth, I agree it can be hard to find in the middle of a cyber war.
By the way, the quoted critic sounds like a real full time pain in the ass. i hope that is just a pose to increase his presence in popular culture, and he really can go to the movies with his best girl and not have to make butt all the way through. THat would be pretty insecure for a man of his age and stature.
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