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I tried someone's suggestion to X-10D a A/V processor pre-amplifier's output, but didn't seem to help much. I can't afford the Meridian even though it sounds like an ideal input for a tube powered DAC for which's the sound I'm striving. Why can't I find an affordable version? The market has plenty of affordable stereo tube pre-amps. What's the deal? Is this yet another one of my audio pet-peeves where I'm devestatingly alone again?
Mart, I posted this on the HT board at audioreview.com but I guess you didn't see it? VAC will be introducing a three channel amp and (later) a pre/pro in the not-too-distant future. These products are being designed and voice-matched for compatibility with VAC's Avatar integrated tube amp.I don't know how married you are to the idea of using tubes for HT, but VAC will not be using tubes in its 3-channel amp and probably not in its pre/pro either. If there is any valve company that can pull off SS amps voice matched to tube ones, certainly VAC is the one. Certainly the technology is there and VAC's approach to circuits facilitates this.
Moreover, why bother with tubes on anything more than your front L/R or possibly L/C/R speakers?
I thought I mentioned that I've got uniform Magnepan Q-R voicing all around. I'd hate to sacrifice this upstream @ the pre-amp. Afterall, I went with the Krell KAV-500 "current-mode" to match the servo sound from my Velodynes.
hi Mart,
even if you had the $ to get a tubed HT i would strongly advise against it. HT speakers look like stereo speakers, they ain't ( especially from your P.O.V). The whole theater deal operates from a different set of assumptions than what you are used to. As a big fan of Tomlinson Holman,
i see this as a good thing.
but... it leaves you with the same choices i brought up some weeks ago in a similar thread.
1) clearly the best choice is 2 systems in different rooms.
2) accept the compromises inherent in grafting a HT on a stereo
3) just say no... use the stereo, skip surround sound
in a much smaller way, i struggled with the same problem. Most of what i did, to create a HT that could do music, and theatre, wound up compromising
one side of the equation to favor the other. You have learned a great deal
about stereos, circuits, and stuff. I suggest the place for you to start is to learn what Holman had in mind when he created the set of standards called THX. While there is a lot to certification, the idea is pretty simple: flat frequency response, sufficent dynamic range and loudness.
Surround the audience with speakers. By and large, stereo speakers are not flat in their freq. response (they don't sound very good that way), dynamic
range and bass are often sacrificed to create ambiance, and of course, only 2 speakers are used instead of 6 or more. The end result is to create product that is just plain different, and to a degree incompatible, with
our traditional approach to sound reproduction.
a friend,
late
I understand that POV, but what do you do when...... the limitations of stereo's front only virtual staging & imaging ...
... the poor steering of HT processing & SS flare ...
... begin to annoy one?
'Hope that something better comes along' ( original Muppet Movie)
... it wasn't intentional. I was burraged by a plethora of concepts that I wanted to convey to help illustrate my POV. One of which was my choice of speakers, Magnepan. I chose them since they exhibit a magnificent compromise between HT & audio. The sound is fast[video] & clean[audio], w/ dynamic-imaging[video] & expansive-stage[audio]. The only problems are the:1) usual speaker manufacture blunder of approximate -6dB lull @ the XOs which the recently purchased Krell rectifies.
2) dipole configuaration which the laterally enclosed egg-crate fixes.
3) non point-sourced center-channel which 2 cures.
4) intrusively distinct rears [MGLR1] which lateral placement diseminates.
... but the adjacently mounted tall drivers render an image that encourages steering in an enormous murial.
Similarly, I wanted tube dynamics with silver ICs @ line-level to keep things immaculate until power is required. Then, SS propells the tube-suppied dynamic-impact via 9ga [3 braided pairs of 12ga generic MonsterCable] copper speaker wire to my maggies.
my thoughts anyway
hi Mart,
no prob on the plume (plum?). The Klyne i mentioned earlier has
a surprisingly tube like sound ( the first time i heard it i didn't believe it was SS until i looked into the box ). So i have a rough idea of what you want; and in most ways, that system will sound much better than mine.
what really turned me around was listening to a ML HT powered
by very nice gear like Spectra (never saw, or even heard, of it before that day; but it sure looked expensive). When the Diva sang, i had goose bumps, and chills. My friend ( who is into the video end of it and uses Def Tech/Adcom was talking with the salesperson about the setup. I'm falling in
love with a blue alien who sings like an angel; and their talking chroma levels ( or something)). I mean wow. But when music was not playing, incidental noises often sounded wrong. I have mentioned gunfire, as an example, many times, but it happened a lot during the few minutes i watched.
so what i suggest is go audition hi end home theater; and make sure
that that is what you really want.
I just can't find a 5.1 channel Klyne nor any deeler where I can audition one. I have been looking. Got a clue? Afterall, I'm new to this end & take all advice seriously.I was hoping for the round full-fledged very-real dynamics with incredible detail w/o the British sultry velvet nature that many audiophile swoon over. It has been my limited expirience that this usually only happens with either signal-transformers or copper ICs on tubes, but becomes very alive with silver.
hi,
basically, no. I think the Proceed is great, and there are even
more expensive ones, but it is all beyond my budget.
Someday i will upgrade my B+K, but dolby 6.1 will prob come out first.
I seem to remember you saying you didn't care for the Krell processor;
i thought it was amazing, with a price to match. My guess is HT will keep
getting better sounding; but it will take a while before they get where you want them to be.
that being a Krell KAV-500 for $2600 & awaiting its arrival. I'm hoping that it'll do to my MG2.7s (& the MGCC1 also used & coming) what I heard it do to my MGLR1 in the store. And that was invigorate the entire spectrum with a uniform output. Even when I removed the attenuating resistor & all my XO tweaking, the differences were insignificant. this never happened before on any amp (McIntosh, Marantz, Sunfire, B&K, Mark Levinson, VAC, NAD, Proceed).
Hang in there. I don't know what the price point is, but BAT will be introducing a new AV processor soon. I understand it will have a tube option for the front 3 channels.
Tom Waits its great!
I couldn't find BAT on the web.
What's their URL?I'd like to see what multiple channel music processors they'll incorporate.
I'm sorry to hear about the extra 2 channels, I'd never use since I've got Maggies.
Just how big do they think my pad is?I've got MG2.7s in front, MGLR1s atop FSR-18s in the rear, with a couple MGCC1's on order to arrange into a D'Appolito array for my center.
here
this is getting retarded.
Don't infer that it is 5 channel, it's 8.Ask Victor what the other 3 are for.
where 2 sides, 2 rear, 3 fronts & 1 sub.
I don't know. It'll be introduced at the show. Try Victor on tubes for more info.
I once asked what comprised a good tube (types of manufacturing processes, types of materials, types of geometries, amount of vacuum, remenant gas) & started a flame war with myself as the target. I was blamed because I posted the question & promised the powers that be not to post there ever again so they wouldn't banish me.
Ah sure you can, they've probably forgotten and Jack's never around on the weekends.Yeah $8K ain't cheap. It's tube for the front 3 channels but I don't know how many tubes per channel. I wouldn't assume 1 per/channel.
***Ah sure you can, they've probably forgotten and Jack's never around on the weekends.Maybe you should create a "Jack IN/OUT" sign... When he arrives, he should give everyone 15 seconds grace period to hide...
***Yeah $8K ain't cheap.
I think we all agree with that. We do our best.
***It's tube for the front 3 channels but I don't know how many tubes per channel. I wouldn't assume 1 per/channel.
Two. The solid state option is somewhat less expensive.
But, it'd ruine my uniform all QR voicing (Magnepan MG2.7 front, MGLR1 rear, MGCC1 center) above 60 hz. I also went with a Krell KAV-500 "current-mode" to match them with my subwoofers' servos (Velodyne FSR18). I want the tube in all the 5.1channels in my preamp too. I could care less about 7.1. I'd have to buy MGSS1s (or similarly mount 10.1s) because I can't afford anymore floor space.BTW, didn't adoption of AC-3 & DTS was to dismiss the problems associated with the limitations of genericly electronic processing? Isn't it sort of analogous to comparing audio line-doubled
CDs with DVD-As, or video line-doubled regular VHS wih DVDs? Why reintroduce it? Am I missing something?
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