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In Reply to: Denon AVP-A! (AVR-8000) vs Sony TAE-9000ES.Am i upgrading or downgrading ? posted by Yiangos on March 12, 1999 at 01:41:49:
OK. I wanted to wait for awhile before I posted about my Sony TA9000ES. I am approximately 60 percent home theater enthusiast and 40 percent 2 channel guy. I was very concerned with the quality of the 9000ES since I hadn't ever demoed it before I bought it. I was upgrading from a B&K AVP1000 preamp to the sony to get into DD and DTS. My biggest concern was Sony's lack of an analogue bypass in case I didn't like the Dacs on the Sony. I bought the Sony for $1145 shipped from Oade.com.
My initial impressions are this-The Sony has tons of detail as others have said. My CD’s of Kodo drummers or choral tracks have made individual drum tracks or voices much, much more wonderfully clear. I hear more things from the recording venue. Also, my subwoofer seems to be tighter and better controlled for music and home theater. Things seemed more bloated when using my B&K preamp with my HSU 12va sub. However, on the other hand I feel that I have lost some warmth or depth to the music. I don’t know how to describe it. I’ve played with the crossovers on the sony, and my Proac Resp. 2 speakers sound best when I cross over to the sub at 80 Hz. Things sound truly dry when I cross over much below that. I should also say I have a Toshiba 2109 DVD player that I am using to play my CDs via its digital out into the Sony. My previous preamp (B&K 1000) and a cheap onkyo 5 disk player with no digital out seemed to have more color or warmth to the music.
Why I was hesitant to post so early is because I’m not done tweaking with my system. I did expect a huge difference with the Toshiba/Sony combo versus the Onkyo/B&K combo, but I haven’t heard it yet. Or have I? For home theater, look nor farther than the sony! I would buy one over a lexicon DC1 or DC2 anyday and spend the remaining $3K to better speakers etc.. I’m still wondering about 2 channel. I’ll admit, I don’t have the best CD transport (Tosh. 2109) or even the best amp for my speakers (B&K EX4420). I should say that high end sound just sounds different when your not accustomed to it. For example, when I purchased my Proacs used, I knew their reputation as stellar minis. You got it right that their midrange is some of the best around. But I’ve always struggled with their lack of low end. So this high fi speaker was initially a bit dissappointing to me. I now have a HSU 12va paired with it (using sub out on preamp), and things are much better. The 12va is a monster on home theater, and does very well for stereo. Nonetheless, I may buy an aci titan or rell sub to use exclusively with the proacs down the road (but I digress).
My point is this: I don’t really know if the new sound I am hearing from the Sony is more accurate and “better sound”. Remember, I bought a top quality Proac speaker and it took some adjusting to get used to this “high end” speaker that had no bass. So perhaps I have to adjust to the new sound of the sony, or I don’t have the right components for the task. Perhaps the color or depth I heard with my other system was simply distortion and coloration added by poor dacs? Some have said a good dedicated transport into the Sony would help. Other have suggested a better amp. Articles suggest that a SRS harmonic recovery system would make it sound better. Some would suggest chucking the Sony altogether. Very confusing. I’m thinking of buying a classe cap100 or 150 so that I can keep the sony, use the classe as an amp for HT, then swith it to the integrated amp for 2 channel listening and have a cd player hooked right into the classe.
Anyway- I’ve rambled long enough. I hope others can offer suggestions. I am not degrading the sony, as I haven’t decided if it will meet my needs yet.
Thanks-
RT
I think the key here is using the "ditital out" on the Toshiba DVD player. Let me tell you of my similar experience with my setup. I have the Sony 9000es preamp with B&K amps (3 and 2 channel 125 wpc models)and the NHT VT1.2 system with an Atlantic tech 262pbm sub. I wasn't all that pleased using my Panasonic a110 as the CD transport, which like you, I was using the digital coax from the a110. I also have a Pioneer LD player (504d) and had both digital rf out and ANALOG outs going to the prepro. I get a MUCH smoother sound using the LD players analog output. You may want to try the analog outs on your Toshiba.
I don't know if you have tried switching from the *normal* output of the Sony's preouts to the *low*, but this also seems to have helped my particular situation. I get a cleaner sound using the low output. I had one of the early units of this model (817 serial numbers last 3 digits)and have not tried the upgrade yet but I THINK one of the things the upgrade might do is actually lower the output on the *normal* setting. An initial buzz about this unit was a low output of the preouts but I think in reality (and confirmed by one of the magazine reviews), the unit was probably pumping out at 9v on the normal setting, which is probably why some have a hiss problem (i noticed the hiss at the -25 range with no source playing). It was cranking out too much. When I switched to the *low* output I removed the hiss compleatly. Of course now I am turning the volumn up to around -10 to -5 in most cases, which is about the 3 or 4 o'clock position, but I feel I get the smoother sound with this. The low setting is more than likely the 1v figure that folks were concerned about. I am hoping the upgrade does takes the *normal* setting and drops the voltage output from the 9v of the earlier units to around 3v or so. Hopefully they will leave the low output at 1v. If anyone can confirm this (ones that have done the upgrade), I would like to here from you.
I'll swith to low output tonight. I also plan on demoing a quality cd transport to see if this changes things. If so, I will become a believer that digital transports do sound different. I greatly appreciate your post.
RT.
Did the switch to low output improve your situation? Also, you may want to leave it that way for a few days even a week or so. When I first tried the low output I would switch back to the normal, which is obviously louder (cut the volumn back around -15 lower for the normal output BEFORE switching from the low output for comparison sake), trying to hear the differences (in detail, noise level etc, NOT loudness). I believe using the low output I have equal detail with less noise and it took a couple of weeks to get used to differences in the volumn slope. For most situations i now have the volumn from -15 to -5 (1pm to 3pm position) while in the normal output I had the volumn from -30 to -20 (12pm to 1pm).
I did switch to low output and didn't notice an immediate effect. I haven't had much time to listen to music lately, although I have watched a few movies with friends. Other than having to increase the volume, I didn't notice a big change in sound for home theater. I do hear some static coming from my rear speakers, but I can't tell if it is the recording or my amplifier. My speakers are to the rear corners of the room and about 5 feet back from the couch. Sometimes I have static from the rears and other times none. I only comment on this because I have heard that the Sony is generally dead quiet. However, I have my rears trimmed about 3 db higher than normal because I like the surround effects. When I lower it, it becomes less noticeable. I'll have more time this weekend to listen to music and will try to comment on the voltage change. My hunch is that its still the Toshiba player.
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