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Wholly mackerel! ;o) Talk about fryin' bigger fish:

Posted by Audiophilander (A) on January 23, 2002 at 15:24:12

In Reply to: Yes... I respect women posted by Victor Khomenko on January 23, 2002 at 11:14:11:

Your response regarding message movies from early cinema:

>>> "Absolutely not. You just want to make us believe that so we would get used to that fairly new notion of social agenda driven lame works." <<<

Of all people I thought you would have a deep understanding of cinema and it's history based on your expressed passion for eclectic film. As a life-long student of the cinematic arts myself and an aficionado of most cinematic forms I'm cogniscent of the historical use of propaganda (i.e., messages) within movies. D. W. Griffith's "Birth of a Nation" is one of the most flagrantly obvious early examples of cinematic propaganda from Hollywood's golden era, but there are many many others, some subtle, many much less so. Griffith, who was born in Georgia and grew up deeply enamoured of southern aristocracy and the wounds suffered by the south during and after the Civil War, made Birth of a Nation in tribute to white southerners who he felt betrayed by the union. His intended title "The Klansmen" was probably considered too polarizing, but this film, in spite of being a classic of the first order, still stands as a revisionist's tribute to the racism of the old south. If that's a "new notion" then Victor you must be a lot older than I would've imagined! ;^)

>>> "To not see the simple fact that in today's American society political trash plays very important role is impossible. This country is being raped and movies like T&L are contributing to that." <<<

WOW! So you think movies with little or no social content (less filling; tastes great!) is what this country needs? Are you suggesting that politics should be avoided or treated lightly (fluff!)? How about contoversial religious views? FYI, we lived under a repressive system of film censorship for approximately three decades (1934-1966); it was called the Haye's Office. Yes, many brilliant films were produced during that period or in spite of it (i.e., if you take into account both the restrictive Hay'e office and the stiffling studio systems in place during that time), but just as many richly rewarding films came out before and since. The bottom line is that one man's trash may be another's revelation and every point of view deserves airing in the marketplace of ideas.

>>> "... you seem to be fixated on the idea of any anti-hero being good as long as he is against the establishment." <<<

That's a gross misrepresentation of my views. I'm only fixated on the freedom of ideas (i.e., to those of appropriate age and appreciation) without the intrusion of censorship. Since we are discussing T&L it's worth noting that you seem to have a fixation on only males anti-establishment heroes, ignoring the relevant gender issues reflected in the theme of that movie.

Obviously, you prefer viewing women in roles of the genteel variety, like Myrna Loy, who you mentioned. Yes, those icons of feminine decorum may appear smart and gentle, they may not have been drinkers, fighters or thieves (i.e., at least in front of the camera), but could Ms. Loy even hold a proverbial candle to someone the likes of Louise Brooks, for instance?

Ms. Brooks was an actress of infinite talent and beauty who refused to compromise either lifestyle or independence. In the late 20's she bucked the Hollywood system walking off of a set where she'd just contractually finished a silent movie when the producers decided they wanted the filmed dubbed to sound and requested her to do a voice-over for free. Without any prospects she had decided to go back into dancing or Broadway when learning of a role in Germany that a Director had wanted to cast with her as lead. In going to Germany Ms Brooks made her two finest films for G.W. Pabst, but paid a terrible price to those insufferable SOB's who ran the American studios by refusing to return for overdubs even after money was offered. Ah, but what a glorious talent; on those two films (Pandora's Box & Diary of a Lost Girl) her place in the pantheon of screen acting resides!

Of course you probably wouldn't appreciate her rebelliousness, shocking public demeanor and carefree "flapper" lifestyle, but she was smart, savvy and arguably the most beautiful woman who ever graced a film, silent or sound.

Which brings me back to the point of what probably seemed a totally unrelated digression: It took a director of Pabst's exquisite style to convey both the beauty and talent of Ms. Brooks in stories of social decadence that are still relevent and shocking today!

>>> "As I said - your position IS demeaning to women. But then again=What does all that have to do with the director's skills?" <<<

That's nonsense! Censorship or repression of adult prurient interests is just as demeaning as patting a woman on the head and dismissing her to a sewing circle while the men folk retire to the study, smoke cigars and discuss politics! Is that the kind of Conservative world-view you wish pandered to by the film community? I sure don't!

Liberal film lover & proud of it,
AuPh

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