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Let's put this one to bed; on some points we'll just have to agree to disagree, but here's my closing argument.

Posted by Audiophilander (A) on November 28, 2007 at 00:57:59

In Reply to: RE: While there are exceptions to every rule, what I stated above is the more likely scenario. posted by jamesgarvin on November 26, 2007 at 17:13:27:

Maybe I'm off base here or misreading your intent, but it appears that you're determined make assumptions about the lack of insight of anyone who criticizes this film on it's merits. While some of my views may have confused or confounded you it is my hope that the tone didn't come across as harsh or demeaning of your own opinion. For clarities sake I will attempt to restate my position and respond point by point without appearing too condescending in the process (well, maybe a little, but only because I've already sharpened my scalpel for heart surgery! -grin).

>>> "If an author is successful, they are making a living writing." <<<

Just as quickly as success comes it may go, and there is no harsher industry than publishing in that regard. Yesterday's best selling author may be tomorrow's unmarketable writer, and all it takes is one or two failures to reduce an author's future worth, Pulitzer prize or not.

>>> "Films based upon their novels are icing on the cake." <<<

Yes, and no. From a financial standpoint, even a best selling author will typically make more from a movie option than he or she ever sees from the book, and that's for properties that end up in "production hell" and never get made. Turning down a film project over a minor creative difference is something that most authors don't do lightly.

Obviously the Coen brothers wanted to film the book as written, because what ends up on the screen is mostly as written. However, it is my contention that the Coens slipped up with the ending, irrespective of the author, and while I can't provide absolute proof of that, an assessment has already been made in regard to how faithfully the rest of the film adheres to the novel.

>>> "That is the easy way out. The question is what to do if the Pulitzer Prize winning successful author who is selling you the film rights for not a lot of money, not appreciably more than he earns anyway, feels that this is his baby, and he will not allow you to change it, no matter what. Then what do you do?" <<<

If you are the author, 'maybe' you can afford to stand on principle, but if you're the Coen brothers it's a much more expensive proposition, and you either negotiate or walk away, find another property and new backers. One thing is for sure: the filmmaker decides what will fly and what won't or he/she won't proceed with filming.

I'm not saying whether the author is or isn't responsible in some capacity for the less than satisfactory conclusion of NCfOM, but regardless of who made the decision to film it that way ultimately it is the Coen's who must bear both credit and criticism for what ends up on the screen.

>>> "No. But your's are not really based on first hand knowledge, unless your wife is in the same financial and professional position as the author of the Coens' film. We have a saying in the legal biz, which is that the facts are everything, and no two cases have the same facts. If your wife was a Pulitzer Prize winning author, with approximately the same income as McCarthy, with the same track record in terms of volumes sold, critical accolades, and she is negotiating with the same people that McCarthy negotiated with, then, well, maybe you would have some knowledge as to what went down between the Coens and McCarthy." <<<

My knowledge is based upon a modest knowledge of the industry (which, no offense, is still more extensive than your's), the negotiations I'm privy to concerning my wife's series and common sense. While I won't argue the obvious (that each situation differs), the fact that an author won a Pulitzer prize does not automatically make his/her work more marketable as a film property. You appear to be making more assumptions than I in this regard because my argument doesn't rely on who negotiated for what.

>>> "Evidence is only critical in terms of what the possessor seeks to prove with it. Arguing that the film could have been better without the ending. Sure. Arguing that the ending was because of the Coens. Not necessarily. It appears the comments here have been relative to the latter, not the former." <<<

My contention is that there was an easily avoided flaw in the film's structure that made the conclusion unsatisfying; I am not alone in this assessment. The evidence of this is the fact that the film was shot and released unapologetically by the Coen brothers; what I've stated in every way I know how is that it's still the filmmaker's responsibility because they chose to shoot and release the film this way. If they felt as myself and others did about the questionable conclusion they could've negotiated for more control over the final product, requested test screenings, offered points or walked; they apparently chose none of the above.

>>> "Um, no. Anymore than if you were married to a heart surgeon you would be qualified to diagnose heart conditions. See above. Unless your wife is in a similar circumstance to McCarthy." <<<

Bad analogy, 'doc'. If I've paid my dues, in this case the cost of admission to see the film in question, then I'm qualified to provide a second opinion and speculate about it's success or failure. Using the strained analogy you've proffered, I guess a christian scientist probably would not be allowed to express an informed opinion about a delicate heart surgury on a member of the congregation because he or she wasn't a heart specialist!

As for similarity of circumstances, I guess neither surgeon nor theologian would be allowed to vent an opinion on your watch about an obvious problem with the collapsed anus of the McCarthy's and Coen brother's film because we don't have your expertise in proctology (just teasin'). ;0)

>>> "Which is why Judges keep unreliable evidence from a jury. The only evidence here is that there was an ending in the Coens' film. An ending which several people did not like." <<<

Sorry, but your arguments here beg for jury nullification. How do you know the total number of folks who are displeased with the conclusion of this film? Have you conducted a polling? I assessed dissatisfaction at the film's conclusion from the reaction of the audience in the theater where my wife and I saw NCfOM; we both had a similar reaction. You are requesting evidence on a technical point for something which doesn't matter. The bottom line is that the film concluded in an unsatisfying manner for some people; neither you nor I know the exact numbers, but I'd wager the number is greater than you are assuming. The film's saving grace is the crispness of it's dialog and the high caliber of acting.

>>> "Assumptions based upon that ending are not evidence. It is conjecture. Counselor, you make the allegation, you have the burden of proof. My job is to simply to create reasonable doubt. You've been overruled." <<<

There are no assumptions; the evidence, as I've stated before, is the film itself. What I've said about the film's ending is not conjecture; it is what it is, and you either accept the evidence of it or you don't. Personally, I find the conclusion seriously flawed, but I accept the film's other qualities without disagreement.

What has been so frustrating in this case is that you've chosen to overrule common sense by employing the "if it doesn't fit you must acquit" tactic, which may succeed in achieving a not guilty verdict but without a critical consensus based on the preponderance of evidence. ;^D

Case dismissed!

Cheers,
AuPh :O)

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