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In Reply to: RE: Both are badly broken. I hope you manage better examples. nt posted by Victor Khomenko on February 12, 2021 at 09:53:55
Countries that have no public health care and no public education and it's working just fine for the common people. Given your disdain for public health care and public education surely you must know of some such success stories out there.
According to you Medicare is a public health system. I guess you just don't know the difference.
for obvious reasons. There aren't any examples.
but that's what it is Victor, paid for under the Old-Age, Survivors, and Disability Insurance program administered by the Social Security Administration ... what do you think it is?
it is considered public because all US citizens will qualify upon reaching a certain age
...a public fund, that pays for PORTION of private medical care. It has no doctors, no clinics.
For true "public health systems" you need to go to the USSR or Cuba. Where all doctors are state employees, all clinics with their equipment are state property.
We still, fortunately, have private medical care system.
It is a VERY reasonable assumption, what removing that private element from the health care would cause it to collapse to the above mentioned examples.
Constantly, I read some British articles: "WOW! A new, breakthrough cancer treatment is now available in the UK!!!!"
Cool... we had that treatment here 18 years ago. And the British system is not even a true public one.
BTW... to be exact, not ALL US citizens are eligible for Medicare.
Then the model that works better is the Single Payer system in Canada and not the USSR or a badly run system heavily weakened by the GOP over the years turning Medicare to crap. It needs to be properly run. But that is a separate issue.
In Canada - the government doesn't run hospitals. The government merely pays the bills. You go to your doctor you need an operation - the doctor and you decide what you need - the doctor does the operation and prescribes the pills and sends the bill to the government.
The doctor in the US wants to put you on X drug but has to phone up an HMO and the HMO says - our plan doesn't cover X it covers a pill that is "almost the same" in Y - so the doctor is now prescribing pills based on what the HMO and your coverage will allow.
The US healthcare system ranks at the very bottom of all industrialized nations in most metrics - so private hospitals and you pay for it all isn't working - you actually pay MORE to get less. This doesn't mean Canada is anywhere near perfect - it's got problems - wait times on non-urgent elective surgery is long because there simply aren't enough people in the medical field to do the elective operations. However, we do have private clinics so if you don't want to wait for an MRI on your knee you can pay for that instead of waiting in line.
I get it you are uber rich guy so your perspective is different than the bottom 99% but if you are at all capable try to pretend you are in the middle of the middle class. Pretend that the majority is more important than the one.
Some good points here.
RGA your post is presumptuous despite making some good points
it posits what someone's financial position is that you can't possibly know then beats up a straw man
no personal offense or snipe is intended I just hate to see good points get lost in a scrum
The "I got mine so screw you" mentality tends to emanate from one financial class of person. While some in the middle and lower financial class have been duped to vote against their own self-interests the majority have not.
And these things are not based on singular posts but across months and years of posts with various patterns.
Please understand something - my posts to certain posters here are not to try and convince them or to change their minds. Teaching old dogs new tricks is like convincing people to get out from under the thumb of religion. For me, it's more about that game at the old arcades called "Whack-a-Mole" (photo above).
Arguments of reason don't work so it's just whack-a-mole. People here only preach to their choirs. As I have traveled and lived in several different countries my perspective is different than some others who don't get out much and see the world first hand.
The things we are taught in school are often BS to keep us in check. America has just proven the statement "No one is above the Law" is complete and utter bullshit. "Violence doesn't solve problems" when in reality it is the only thing that usually does. Flower Power wasn't taking down the Nazis. Americans must agree because the US Industrial complex is where most of the taxes are going. No one stops to think that you should have a country worth defending before you spend all your money to defend it.
It's more about being frustrated at seeing the obvious potential and a relatively easy fix but the guy you brought in to fix the Rolex only has one tool - a sledgehammer. Nuance isn't in their mindset.
Frustration River Valley. Plus too much time on my hands with Covid I suspect. Granted this is mostly an American board so it's just that I see things from a different perspective - something that is obvious to me is not seen as obvious to some posters on this board. So it's kind of baffling to me.
But hey - have a laugh - Canada sure ain't perfect either :)
'Frustration River Valley'
by golly, there's an Americana song title right there!
thanks for the reply & trust that I understood your POV before reading it
there's not much nuance in dismissal though some ideas deserve it out of hand
it's difficult to peer behind what's said for why it's said
which is why one should never assume it's been seen & stop looking
sounds like a self help ditty from pop-sci but I've found it to be true
'For true "public health systems"'
you appear to be defining what constitutes a public health care system based on it's delivery mechanism of services which removes it from the proper context; basically redefining the terminology involved
'Medicare' is a publicly funded [via the FICA tax] publicly administered [via Gov't] program with services provided via private contractor participation in said public program subject to Gov't oversight ... this meets all criteria for being a 'public health care system' ... it just doesn't cover all of 'the public'
Private providers is what gives us the exceptional medical care that we get.
There is no other driving mechanism for excellence. Remove it, and you will get second, then third, then forth rate service.
Give our doctors Russian salaries, and see who is left there to treat you.
Once again - fortunately, Medicare covers only a portion of our health care. No good private system would be able to survive on its rates.
And BTW - I am currently being shafted by Medicare to the tune of $7K, and dealing with them is like nothing you have seen. If you think dealing with a private insurance can be hard... think again.
I'm sorry to hear that you're having problems with the system
on the other hand, there's at least a system to have problems with
the 'least' part of that is, of course, a problem in itself
of course since Medicare is an 'opt in' program, if someone can afford private medical coverage they're not required to sign on ... conversely, if one could afford to pay cash they wouldn't need either one
'exceptional medical' care being tethered to private practice hasn't really been studied / examined very thoroughly since it's not widely available, usually only to those who can afford that cash option
what has been studied and examined very closely is socialized medicine and those results point to a much higher comparative degree of efficacy in populations / societies where it's available
I don't think pure reward factors drive people into medical fields, so competition in this area doesn't give us 'pacers' vs. 'racers' as far as practicing their craft ... maybe in the more specialized area of plastic surgery, but overall ... ? I'm not sure ... those I know didn't get into it for the $$ though ... of course they expect as much compensation for their efforts possible, but like anything else that's a component of life style choices [where they practice: small town vs. city etc.] and work environment
well, I certainly didn't mean to write a short story responding but hey, this health coverage stuff is really complex
thanks for expanding on your other post I can see where you're coming from and the element of frustration you're dealing with ... it's unfortunate that health insurance matters have become so conflated with the care itself
A few weeks ago we received - out of blue - a letter, from the Treasury Department, that we owe them $7K in Medicare bills.
Long story short - back in 2016 I was hit by another car. I had a couple of visits to my family doc, and maybe 10 visits to a chiropractor. That's it. All were charged under the car insurance PIP portion.
The letter, however, stated, that all the visits on the list were related to that car accident.
There were 26 pages of charges, from 2016 to 2019, none of which was related to the accident - just some routine visits and some surgeries.
My wife spent a lot of time on the phone, and all she managed to get was: write us a letter. So we did.
We received a form reply that we will be given a response in 60 days.
In the meantime, in about 3 weeks, they told us, they will start withholding up to 15% of my SS benefits.
There is no one to talk, to discuss... just one huge impersonal machine.
And if you think this is all about $7K - you are wrong... because there is absolutely no telling that this accumulation of debt stopped in 2019.
For all we know it might still be counting... perhaps forever. We were not able to get ANY answer to this question.
Prior to my getting on Medicare I spent about 36 years on private insurances... and there was never anything even close to this.
I sent a pair of speakers from Detroit to neighborhood of Toronto (Canada), so over the river.The charge was $250 for a pair. Each speaker was 50lbs. After a week I was notified that the speakers are being returned to the sender. The confusion was the reason for return. At first they quoted lack of custom form then they reversed to "natural disaster" (covid). One of the speakers arrived on the porch .The other one was lost. After the inquiry they located the second one and delivered it. I was promptly charged $1200 for "overweight package" A nice customer support lady told me that the charge is for 150 Lbs and it is only the first of the two since they have to charge the same amount (another $1200) for a return shipping. There was no arguing since the "internal investigation" revealed that the package was scanned 4 times along the way and each time it confirmed 150 Lbs.
I had to report my credit card missing to avoid the extorsion and my relationship with fedex ended. I still "owe" them that money.
a timeline and you can appeal any decision. What's the problem?
There was no such a word anywhere in their correspondence.
But I get it... the government bureaucrats can do no wrong.
There was not even a word of apology.
Exactly how much do you think your care would have cost you w/out Medicare, overall, since you've both been Medicare eligible. Under "Vic-Care," it would be privatized, completely, right? No contributions "paying it forward." If you think Americans would pay for expected services in advance, willingly, you haven't followed Obamacare very well.
damn ... let me chew on this a bit and revert, I've got a few ideas rattling around to explore first
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