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I liked it. I liked it better than I expected to.I don't think it's a great film, I don't think it's a film befitting a 'master,' but truthfully from what I've seen of Bertolucci I think he's the least of his generation's particular eschelon of directors. The sex scenes--the 'Bertolucci' in the phrase "Bertolucci film"--are mostly clinical, and there's a certain generic, workmanlike feel to his films.
Here, though, the lack of heat in the sex scenes seemed to serve a point, notably that the only real, reciprocal passion was between the sister and brother, and since they 'couldn't' consummate their weird love, she had to settle for the American...At least that's one way to take it.
Never mind the sex. The bits I liked about it were a handful of conversations where Bertolucci seemed to capture the awkward, ad hoc feel of young intellectuals with more feelings than ideas. And I think that he also did a good job of conveying the faux radicalism of the aesthete brother. In my opinion, the character of the sister was herself, as a character, a nod to the mystery girl in 8 1/2.
The acting was...um...something. There's the whole question of whether or not they're acting like they're acting or not; I'm not sure they were quite up to the task, although I think the casting was pretty right on, the brother and sister looking like throwbacks to Godard.
Does it work as a love letter to film? Sort of. I felt like it was at once too obvious in its considerations and not persistent enough with them. Does it work as a piece about May '68? Eh, not really; the action being held at bay was necessary and a nice touch, given that the group is holed up throughout the film in a great Parisian apartment. But the outfits and period touches were all too clean looking, too neat and 'Late Sixties'; pulled off the rack in wardrobe.
I don't think there's anything shocking about it, and I don't think there's meant to be, really. Matthew, the American, deals with the brother and sister's incestuousness in a straight-forward, rational way--another well-played part of the film. So for me there wasn't the whiff of debauchery that critics have smelled hanging around the proceedings. It was more a group of confused, excited kids, playing games, with Matthew coming around to the idea that maybe some games are a bit too warped to play, and maybe they have lasting damage. That aspect of the film is left unconsidered in any treatment I've seen.
It's a good, flawed film, with nowhere near the flagrant nudity I'd been led to expect (which isn't to say there isn't a good deal of nudity, just that it isn't so demonstrative and 'shocking'). Not a great film, nothing that'll change your life...but in my estimation most of those films have already been made, and whatever of that caliber that might still be forthcoming is few and far between.
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Stranger than that, we're alive!Whatever you think it's more than that, more than that.
nt
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and 'sides, didn't you see my "double or nothing" challenge to Elmo? I'm still holding out to see who wins the election.But, truthfully, I've absorbed some economic blows lately and I don't have the luxury to honor bets at the moment. Maybe in the future, maybe in person...
You should hang out at Central more often, so you're more accessible.
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Stranger than that, we're alive!Whatever you think it's more than that, more than that.
Just pulling your leg. I wonder what kind of shape a six pack would be in after going through the UPS delivery chain.
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...part about the run through the Louvre? The connection was to the Goddard's "Band of Outsiders" where Anna Karina and hre friends run through it.
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Yeah, he interspersed a clip of Bande a Parte, wherein the sister makes exactly the same sharp turn, or breezes by someone in the same way, as Anna Karina, which was pretty well done...But that part, for instance, sort of highlights the problems I had with the movie...seems like an item on a checklist or something.
Have you ever seen a film where you could criticize most every salient aspect of it, but something about it keeps you from disliking it? I thought the film was a worthy effort. His heart was in the right place...I'm not convinced it's quite the piece of vicarious eroticism you've pinned it as, though its being made by Bertolucci would certainly suggest that. Rather...well, obviously the 'incestuous' relationship was meant to suggest something about films, filmmakers, and viewers, but it managed to miss the mark. But I think that's more where the concern lies, I think he was genuinely making the effort at some allegory of youthful rebellion and that era of film, which is why the sex was so lackluster and incidental. They were naked, but they weren't really lustful...
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Stranger than that, we're alive!Whatever you think it's more than that, more than that.
surpass, "Last Tango in Paris," The Last Emperor," and "The Conformist?"
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Forgot that was Bertolucci.OK, let's see,
the aforemention 8 1/2, and pretty much anything by Fellini...
Masculin Feminin, and pretty much anything Godard did in the sixties...
The Exterminating Angel, and pretty much anything by Bunuel...
are all, in my opinion, better films than those three.
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Stranger than that, we're alive!Whatever you think it's more than that, more than that.
has its overblown moments: it degerates into self-conscious parody. Pierrot Le Fou, a very good film at the time...well, watch it and see: it seems...OLD.
Bunuel: no argument there. A major artist, of Bernardo's caliber, for sure. But of an earlier era: BB rules from 70s on, along with SK. You aren't going to try and defend the later, ridiculously over-the-top satires of Bunuel's senilescence, I hope?
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The quality of something being 'dated' really is in the eye of the beholder, so I'm not sure I can offer much evidence to the contrary, beyond my disagreement. 'Pierrot le Fou' is probably my favorite Godard movie, with my favorite ending in film history.I think Godard's films are as close to timeless as films get.
Where do Bunuel's "ridiculously over-the-top satires" begin for you?
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Stranger than that, we're alive!Whatever you think it's more than that, more than that.
It's been YEARS since I've seen that, and I don't remember it very well at all. I'll have to try to rent it soon.Have you seen Godard's contribution to that "Aria" movie? It is HILARIOUS.
...Band of Oursiders... and your argument goes out of the window.I don't think Godard is "dated" - he carries the signature of his time, but dated? Hardly.
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...IMHO, is "Contempt," which doesn't seem dated at all.Where, exactly, does "Breathless" degenerate into self-conscious parody? And even if it does, how does that make it "dated"?
We discussed Bertolucci short time ago, and I would agree with this post of yours, except I think the Conformista deserves a better fighting chance - the other two are more cult films than ones of real significance.But the REAL reason tin mentioned the Conformista has nothing to do with Bertolucci - is that he has hots for Sanda... we all know that.
But you are right - it is easy to better Bertolucci.
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As I wrote before, I found it irritating in the extreme, the pointless attempts by an old director to bring his lost sexuality back... or to feel it through the experiences of the younger bodies.
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of a young babe climbing all over ya Outside. I will say this: the Siddharta effort was pathetic---with Keanu as Buddha, it should have been a comedy. And the dumb other one about some young thing on a hill in Italy...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
Robert Altman seems to have aged better...
Hey, come to think of it, Kubrick's last was along those similar lines....young, lusting bodies.
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I didn't think there were clear parallels between the Dreamers and EWS - with Kubrick's work being sooooooo incredibly puzzlingly weak it defied any comparisson.Sexual obsession in old farts is never a pretty sight, and the aging directors would be best advised to ignore those hot subjects. Audio designers are different beasts, they retain their unbriddled sexuality well past their 90-ties, and the babe in question was... was... well, she was THERE... how's THAT for a reason?
But going back to comparisson between the two, if I had to take one with me to that darn island, it would be the Dreamers, since the EWS is simply too boring. There is glimps of art in the Dreamer, and as I stated before - the subject of the movie lovers is dear to me, but... man, this is difficult, as I recall the scenes from the Dreamer I get that sensation as if I just swallowed a frog... so perhaps I should stop here.
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