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flawed movie.
First off, Spielberg makes a disastrous decision: he actually doesn't show the Munich massacre until the end. So, we see many Palestinians killed, in quite graphic fashion, without seeing the horrific events that led to the brutal retaliations.
It doesn't help that Steven also tries to portray the chief cold-blooded assassin (the Israeli one) as an otherwise loving family man that just happens to set out to kill eleven men. As he proceeds down his retributive path, he doesn't show much of a transformation, we are TOLD of it. Of course, part of the problem is the choice of the lead: Bana is not emotive. He possesses the coldest, deadest set of eyes in Hollywood.
The other problem with the film is the perspective. The Israelis are given plenty of opportunities to show how righteous they are, with a ridiculous speech by the actress portraying Golda Meir espousing how non-violent and hating of violence the Israelis are. At some point towards the middle of the film, after many such anti-Palestinian cause pronouncements, finally the Arabs have a small say. It is as if Spielberg decided that the film would seem too Michael Moore-ish if he didn't include at least a cursory attempt to show why the Palestinians willingly set out to risk THEIR lives much as their future assassins would.
The fatal flaw of this movie, an action/adventure one, is... there was little or no suspense. None of the brilliance action techniques so apparent in Private Ryan are apparent here. There are so many poorly orchestrated climaxes that the viewer becomes exhausted. The fatigue also is a result of the film's length.
For God's sake, let's return to the studio system. Those old guys knew that, given carte blance, directors' egos would create self-destruction, in many instances. Many directors now feel that editing is a nuisance.
An energetically wielded paring knife wouldn't have saved this film but at least my butt wouldn't have fallen asleep.
I will tip my hat to the actress cast as Bana's wife: an understated performance from an actress that exuded sensuality in a natural, fleshy way. Hurrah for women with some meat on their bones!
I thought he had more common sense. Will his next movie be about the Prophet Mohammed?
"The Israelis are given plenty of opportunities to show how righteous they are, with a ridiculous speech by the actress portraying Golda Meir espousing how non-violent and hating of violence the Israelis are."While liberals generally are very good at telling other people what is best for them, and how they should feel about themselves and the world around them, you, as an educated person, are, I assume, aware that most Jews and Israelis felt the film was too hard on them, and that Spielberg has reported that he has lost Jewish friends as a result of the film. Or do you know more about how Jews and Israel's think than they do?
Tin,Although I think you have it all backwards.
:-)
Don't read Jonas' book as it takes enormous liberties with the real story.
Unfortunately, Spielberg used "Vengeance" as the absolute truth behind the events and I found "Avner" to be rather...what's the word...a total crock.
Merry Xmas.
Tosh
"I think this place is restricted Wang, so don't tell em you're Jewish"
That seems to be the case with this film. It doesn't help that the guy who made Schindler's List also made this.
I know we differ on the issues of Palestinian rights and the legitimacy of Israel's OLD claims, but the fact is, Israel is a country, has been one for a long time, has paid a terrible price, and (why does one have still to say it?) deserves to continue on, whatever the cost. Whatever.
The same case can be said for the Palestinian "cause" for the creation of a homeland.
My problem with the film is not its politics, per se, but the preachy, self-righteous tone. And... it's not a very good action/suspense film.
One wants to like Bana because he seems... likable. But an assassin? He never convinced me. I also have a slight problem with the Mossad being portrayed as selecting the Incompetent Bunch for such a critical mission.
Tin,I have so many issues with this film (not of a political nature) that I saw it twice to make sure I wasn't hallucinating.
1. Spielberg's adaptation of "Vengeance" was very poor. He emphasizes certain things well - but then turns everything else into a Hollywood spectacle.
The killing of Wael Zwaiter was just wrong - based on the book, historical account in various texts, newspapers, etc...
There is no real explanation as to why the Mossad would kill a "poet" and I think that applied to a lot of the Fatah and Black September people assasinated.
Where's the beef?
I think the moral equivalency thing has been blown out of proportion by critics.
The scenes at the end where the Black September murderer butchers the last 5 athletes in the helicopter were very powerful and accurate. I would have walked out of the theater had Spielberg portrayed that any differently.
Spielberg also forgot (for some reason that only he can explain) to mention that the other team members had wives and even children. His portrayal of "Robert" the toy/bomb maker was really out there.
I also object to his two-dimensional portrayal of the Israelis. To suggest that the IDF brass were so cool and non-chalant about their decision to undertake the mission is fucking laughable.
The cost of sending a number of teams around Europe was enormous, not to mention, rather perilous for diplomatic reasons if they got caught - which one team did in Lillehammer, Norway.
A simplistic portrayal of a very complicated event that barely scratched the surface.
Tosh
"I think this place is restricted Wang, so don't tell em you're Jewish"
How did it compare to HBO's "Sword of Gideon"? I presume it probably makes Gideon look like a Looney Toon. Steven Bauer played the protaginist and IIRC Rod Stieger played his mentor. Bauer showed a sense of devotion to duty while grappling with his conscience.
...this one contentious but very critical point is glossed over: Were the targeted victims truly the assassins alleged, or, more cynically, were some of them just on the General Hit List for Israel?clark
has one of the Israeli assassins, after killing about six (one loses count) Palestinians, ramble on about the morality of what he's doing and how it's so non-Jewish to be violently retributive. Wow. I guess he never read much of the OT.
His ramble, however, is a fraction of what another character has to say. This blue-eyed, blond assassin has innumerable speeches justifying exactly what they're doing. One cannot help but feel, given the numerous scenes in which he holds forth with his vengeful, Israel Forever speeches, and with his fate, that this is the character Spielberg most admires.
The film feels like a not-so-clever polemic.
Releasing it during the Holiday season especially is wrong-headed. It is also unfortunate that Spielberg timed it when Iraq is in such a critical phase: it's "message" will not be ignored by Arabs.
Even here, your comments indicate Palestinian "action", Israeli "reaction".
If the previous 25 years of Zionist dictatorship wasn't an "action" then what on earth could be?
Where tin and his band engage in their endless itty-bitty-party.
I think you meant anti-Zionist.
Does your reponse mean you think an American studio would make such a film?
A little history would teach you that before Israel was set up, Jewish terrorists were mutilating British soldiers. Some of those terrorists made it to very high office in Israel.
By the UN definition of genocide, Israel is very definitely guilty of that crime.
If you choose to ignore it, then that is your choice...
as
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