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I have a 7.1 processor (Aragon Stage One). I bought 4 surround speakers (2 rear, 2 side) and have them all hooked up and running fine with test tones. I've had it for a while, but being mainly a 2 channel (music) guy I haven't played around much with it. Room is 17 1/2W x 24L x 8H.
Problem to me, is I don't really get anything out of the rear channels when watching movies. Reading the literature it seems only those movies with ES or EX (?) markings will really do anything back there.
I don't know that any of my incredibly small collection of movies has this. Anybody out there really find 6.1 or 7.1 to a useful advantage over 5.1? Any movies in particular that show this well? I'm darn near considering just hooking up all four as 5.1 so that they at least play for all movies. Am I nuts (well, yes, but about this thought)?
Follow Ups:
I use four Maggie 1.6 spekers and phantom center front and center rear. My pre/pro can be set to run all DD and DTS 5.1 material in 6.1. I have A/B'd this and find the 6.1 more enveloping but admittedly the difference is subtle.
" I have A/B'd this and find the 6.1 more enveloping but admittedly the difference is subtle. "
I'd definitely agree that things can be more enveloping but that it is a subtle difference. That's pretty much what I meant when I said:
"I think there is a small but genuine advantage in my having a 6.1 system for those films with EX or ES soundtracks. The overall surround sensation is a little more enveloping than what I get if I play them in 5.1. I don't notice as large an advantage in using processing to derive a 6th channel from a native 5.1 channel soundtrack and usually listen to movies with 5.1 tracks in 5.1."
My room is an open plan space, open at the right side and at the right rear which is probably quite different to your room and also may partially account for why I tend to prefer 5.1 in 5.1. The rest of the reason behind my preference is probably my purist streak preferring to listen to sound tracks in the way they were mastered. I usually listen to stereo soundtracks in 2 channel stereo rather than using any processing on them either.
David Aiken
I know you prefer a phantom front center for your Maggie's (as many do including myself), but have you ever tried your CC3 as a rear center? Just curious.
Also, any recommendations on movies to try the rears out. I know you have an AMAZING collection of movies and I know to some degree your tastes, and respect your opinion to say the least.
BTW, I hope my pre/pro can do the same (it's a pretty loaded unit). I'll check the manual. That'd be a nice option. Yours is a NAD right?
I have to buy a replacement for my rear ampright now actually. My wife's mini-system upstairs decided it didn't like the (too hard to drive) Missions that replaced it's original speakers. So I pulled an old pre, stole my Akai meter amp and improved her system for her.
Hi Grant,
No, since the rear center is a phantom by definition I cannot use an actual speaker there (not to mention I have no place there for a speaker).
Asuming you have the rears set at the same level as the fronts and that this is done by meter, there is very little actual sound mixed by movie makers into the rears. They provide ambiaence and a sense of envelopment and, like the refrigerator being on and your not noticing it until it shuts off, you really don't "hear" the rears unless you collapse the signal to stereo, then the difference is manifest.
"Apocalypse Now" (either version) and "Saving Private Ryan" have spectacular surround sound mixes, as does "Master and Commander", which to date is the best DVD sound mix. "Open Range" has some pretty effective thunderstorms and frightening gunshots. I like "The Bridges of Madison County" for the quietest, most involving sound mix but unfortunately the only DVD version is the so called "full screen" (a misnomer if there ever was one) so I watch my letterboxed stereo laserdisc version and use the pre/pro's Dolby Pro Logic II (not I!) Movie codec. (I use either of the two Dolby Pro Logic II modes for all stereo material).
Thanks for the comment about my movie collection, 1700 and counting...
I've got a 6.1 system. Room size and the location of an open archway into the main hallway of my home preclude a 7.1 system which would place one of the rear surrounds in the middle of the arch.
Only Dolby Digital EX and DTS ES offer 6.1/7.1 sound in standard def, and what they offer is basically 6.1. The 7th channel is usually identical to the 6th but some processors may tinker with that to introduce differences. DD EX uses a matrix system for the extra channel and only DTS ES provides a genuine discrete 6th channel. On discs with both formats I prefer the discrete DTS ES option, but then I also tend to prefer DTS tracks over Dolby tracks. The hi-def audio tracks on HD DVD and Blu-ray can offer discrete 7.1 but I don't know if any do since I don't have such a player, and I haven't heard the hi-def tracks anywhere except in open floor shop demo systems that simply weren't capable of letting me hear how good they were, much less having had the chance to make a comparison between Dolby and DTS on their new formats.
I think probably less than 5% of standard DVDs have EX or ES tracks. I've come across a couple which claim to have an EX track but it isn't flagged so my receiver treats it as 5.1 and I have to manually invoke PL IIx processing. I have some DVDs with EX and/or ES tracks which are flagged and automatically play in 6.1 on my system.
I think there is a small but genuine advantage in my having a 6.1 system for those films with EX or ES soundtracks. The overall surround sensation is a little more enveloping than what I get if I play them in 5.1. I don't notice as large an advantage in using processing to derive a 6th channel from a native 5.1 channel soundtrack and usually listen to movies with 5.1 tracks in 5.1.
Having gone from a 5.1 to a 6.1 system, I could question the cost/value benefit of the additional speaker since, as I said, it is only a small advantage. but overall I'm happy to have gone with it for the benefit it yields on the discs that have EX or ES soundtracks.
Movies with EX/ES tracks that I have are the deluxe 4 disc editions of the Lord of the Rings films which have extremely good EX and ES tracks, the 3rd X-Men film and "The Village' which also have both, the original "Ghost in the Shell" which has an unflagged EX track, "Lady in the Water' which is EX, and I think there are a couple more. Obviously since I tend to listen to 5.1 tracks in 5.1 my rear channel doesn't get much work but I do appreciate it when it does come into use.
If you want the rear surrounds to play in all channels, do consider using Dolby Pro Logic IIx or DTS Neo6 processing rather than connecting the speakers to the side surround channels. I haven't tried doing that but I would think that the processing options would be better than simply doubling up on the side surround channels. Of course if your setup doesn't allow that sort of processing, then you may have no choice if you don't want to invest in a component that gives you that processing capacity.
David Aiken
I'm pretty sure my processor has all the otions you listed. Portion pasted from the on line manual:
THX® Ultra2, ... 5.1, 6.1 and 7.1 decoding ... Dolby Pro Logic II, dtsES-Matrix and Discrete, dtsNEO:6 and THX® Surround EX ...
I'll just have to play around a bit more and find a couple movies with the ES or EX tracks. Thanks again.
or simply apply the 5.1 surround info to the additional surrounds. How hard will it be for the next generation of processors to make 7.1 "happen" out of 5.1 24/192 movie soundtracks ?
I wouldn't expect a whole lot of source material to provide "native" 7.1 outputs.
I also know there are processors which make 7.1 out of 5.1—my Denon 2897 receiver does it. Newer receivers/processors do it but older ones don't. I don't know whether the original poster's Aragon Stage One does it which is why I said what I said.
In my view:
- 7.1 or 6.1 native material sounds better that way than downmixed to 5.1 though it is a small improvement rather than an earth shattering one. I suppose one should expect that given how much and what info is in the extra channels;
- synthesising 7.1 (6.1 in my case) from 5.1 makes a difference but I wonder at times whether it's worth it;
- either of the above is going to be definitely superior to doubling the speakers on the side surround channels and running 5.1 with 2 left and 2 right surround speakers playing the same surround info from a 5.1 mix.
David Aiken
which means I'd need a new pre/pro with the right audio "processing prowess". Plus two new speakers, two more channels of amplification, etc....
A rear center would also be good but I'm not sure any of the current(/future?) processor modes will support both "side fills" and a "rear center".
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