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In Reply to: RE: "Early adopters problems" is no excuse! posted by jsm on October 19, 2007 at 16:37:53
Those of us who have had zero problems with any blu-ray discs or players are having a hard time reconciling these complaints with our flawless experience with blu-ray. And yes, whether you care to admit it or not, some players and software have been known to have problems when introduced. This actually has been observed in formats other than blu-ray. Shocking, huh? My new amp is having problems. None of my blu-rays or my PS3 has had so much as a hiccup.
Do you really think these minor issues with blu-ray are unprecedented?
Or do you wish that HD DVD was the only choice offered to consumers for high definition films?
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
Follow Ups:
...you're suggesting that videophiles should purchase a Playstation, right? Fair enough, but some folks might prefer A/V gear specifically designed for a more sophisticated, movie savvy audience. Can you recommend any Blu-ray gear that's priced competitively with HD-DVD gear and performs as well as your Playstation 3?AuPh
Auph, those who are looking for cheapo players and software are looking at mature technology: DVD. They can spend under $100 on a player and get thousands of titles for about $10 a pop.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
Playstation 3 has far more computing horsepower than any "average" B-D player, and any Blu-Ray features designed to use this power are likely to run sluggishly or not at all on non-PS/3 systems.
Folks who buy either Blu-ray or HD-DVD products (hardware & software) do have a right to expect levels of performance in most areas that exceed standard definition DVD; that has nothing to do with early adoption.
Basically, early adopters are paying more for newer higher resolution technology; with that comes certain reasonable expectations that coincide with the marketing of those products.
> > > "Auph, those who are looking for cheapo players and software are looking at mature technology: DVD. They can spend under $100 on a player and get thousands of titles for about $10 a pop." < < <
True, but those who want performance can also obtain it with high-end players that scale to 1080P. While not true HD, some of these come pretty darn close, meaning that the expectations for performance of Blu-ray and HD-DVD are raised even higher.
AuPh
With the PS3 you don't just get a Blu-ray/DVD player. You get a 60 GB blu-ray hard drive, compatibility with PS games, four USB ports, Blue tooth, a cell processor that is so powerful Stanford scientists are using it for protein folding renderings, and a built-in media center.That's a tremendous value. Even for the 40 gig model at $399.
And I would say that early adopters are not just paying more for the technology, but for the companies to recoup their R&D expenses in getting these products to market.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
"...some folks might prefer A/V gear specifically designed for a more sophisticated, movie savvy audience."
Maybe something with more snob appeal?
The audio and video capabilities of the PS3 put it on par with or better than most of what's out there re: performance. The insulting "it's a game machine" mentality (despite the fact that it's so much more) and the look of the product doesn't negate those capabilities.
Regardless of its capabilities, its still a game console. That's why its clled a Play Station. That's why the masses aren't buying it. That and the price. :-)
Jack
Regardless of its capabilities, its still a game console.
All I can say is that it's also a game console. No, wait, it's actually a media hub.
That's why the masses aren't buying it.
Masses? You wanna talk 'bout masses? The PS3 has amassed more sales than all Blu-ray and HD DVD players combined. How ya lika dem masses?!
That and the price. :-)
News flash: $399 PS3s are coming in a week or two.
Its sold what 3-4M? Thats alot for a game console its first year? Please...
You're really stretching things here.
Jack
The "look" of products has always been a factor in their appeal. I'm not saying that performance issues are less important, to the contrary, performance is essential for cutting edge products; it should be #1, that's a given. However, eye appeal, rack-friendly construction and intended function are also factors worthy of consideration when purchasing a product.
Maybe "snob appeal" is what you'd call it, but audiophiles frequently take into account the all important WAF consideration in purchasing audio gear, most often to the detriment of monolithic room enveloping speakers that exude testosterone like a muscle-car. This was a long lamented problem until savvy manufacturers started designing more eye catching, home friendly speakers that still achieved high performance design parameters without losing spousal appeal.
The problem with acquiring an over-designed game console as one's high-end video platform is that it lacks the proper elegance to fit in with other components in a top-notch A/V system. Admittedly the PS3 is much less clunky in appearance than some noteworthy game cubes and consoles, but it's still a Playstation, even to the point of being labeled as such across the top.
Why is it that the best affordable Blu-ray product SONY can design to display films with optimum resolution has to be a game platform that the owner can't show off to interested friends without excusing it's odd appearance? It's like the Wizard behind the curtain: having seen the PS3 for what it is will folks still be as overwhelmed by the end result or will concerns arise that it may just be a humbug pretending to be a magician?
Food for thought.
AuPh (Have Snob, Will Snoot)
I guess the secret's out that I don't buy audio or video gear based on looks (my CD transport is a Krell KPS-20t) nor on what I believe my relatives or friends will say/think about it (my digital video source is the PS3). It's my gear, I paid for it and I'm the one who uses it. Anyone who has a problem with that can exit through the door in which they came in from.
WAF
My wife thinks the PS3 is cool looking. As a matter of fact, she's the one who bought it for me. And since she's 36, it's not one of those twenty-something things going on here.
Sony
As you should know, game consoles are sold at a loss: the money's made through software purchases and other items to go along with the console and gaming experience.
Sony is made up of several different "smaller Sonys" that do not have to support each other. Remember all of the commotion that was made over Sony's DSD/SACD division not getting SACD releases from Sony's own label, Sony Music? Same applies here: SCEA does their own thing (games, consoles, etc), Sony Pictures does their own thing (theatrical releases, home movies, etc) and Sony Electronics does theirs (receivers, DVD/Blu-ray players, etc). Through SCEA, the PS3 got its price via the usual console pricing route -- discount and make up the money elsewhere. But Sony Electronics doesn't do subsidies, so no discounting of the hardware occurred as in the gaming market.
Re: Blu-ray hardware, prices will come down (more than they have already) and capabilities/features will be increasingly supported. The next few months will be interesting.
"The problem with acquiring an over-designed game console as one's high-end video platform is that it lacks the proper elegance to fit in with other components in a top-notch A/V system."
I hate to tell you this, but if the PS3 internals were put in a stand-alone player, A/V snobs still wouldn't be satisfied unless it lost the ability to play games and had a different name. But if you really wanted a player to "fit in with other components in a top-notch A/V system" , you'd be looking at Denon's upcoming DVD-3800BDCI Blu-ray player, not demanding a stand-alone Blu-ray player with the PS3's capabilities for $250 + free shipping.
...if you're right about it being in the $250 range, but nothing you've said has dispelled my concerns about SONY or the technologies they support.FYI, I've been burned by SONY products and heavily hyped technologies before, or rather their slow support and out and out lack of support (fast roll-out & quick obsolescence) for products they hype. I'm sure that this isn't true across the board, but you have to understand that not everyone is going to line-up behind a manufacturer or that manufacturer's new technology just because of the hype associated with it.
The amount of extra space available on a given high resolution disc doesn't impress me, especially if the mastering results in virtually the same quality image on both competing formats and that hyped space isn't utilized for extras or a noticeably better picture from the increased bandwidth.
The bottom line for me rests in several areas: 1) movies & videos that I desire to collect in high definition, 2) glitch free performance and 3) competitive pricing of hardware and software.
The early adopter arguments don't impress me either. If something is being marketed to achieve a certain level of performance, then I expect the product(s) to live up to the advertising with very few roadblocks. If a product doesn't live up to expectations, then IMO it isn't ready for commercial sale to the general public.
> > > "My wife thinks the PS3 is cool looking. As a matter of fact, she's the one who bought it for me. And since she's 36, it's not one of those twenty-something things going on here." < < <
That's fine! Some folks like abstract art, too; it's all a matter of personal taste. I didn't mean to imply that you or anyone else who purchases a SONY Play Station is immature or anything like that. What I meant in bringing up the WAF issue is that spousal considerations are a factor for many folks (based on the number of discussions on AA's boards) even if it isn't an issue for you and your wife.
> > > "Re: Blu-ray hardware, prices will come down (more than they have already) and capabilities/features will be increasingly supported." < < <
They'd better, or Bill Gates is gonna kick some serious fanny! I wouldn't be surprised if HD-DVD prices fall to match anything SONY announces. I don't know how deep SONY's pockets are, but I'd never bet against Microsoft coming from behind to win by a (held) nose even though I don't like Microsoft's cutthroat business model. The bottom line: If Blu-ray is going to "blow up folk's skirts" then they're going to have to offer much more in the way of major films that folks want as well as genre films and classics, and those films will have to play without glitches.
So far, HD-DVD is doing a better job of supplying the movies I want and my Toshiba HD-A20 player has worked very well (without hiccups), but if Blu-ray were to issue certain highly desired (single inventory) titles it would probably persuade me into taking a closer look at buying a Blu-ray or dual format player sooner than planned. As I've stated several times before, I have no dog in this hunt.
> > > "The next few months will be interesting." < < <
On that we can definitely agree! :o)
AuPh
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