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In Reply to: RE: Re: posted by Jack G on October 20, 2007 at 13:06:11
Most new gear has a jack for hooking it up to a network so it stays current. The new plasmas from Pioneer have this feature as well. Updating software and firmware has become standard practice. I admit, when I got my Tivo, the importance of a network connection was totally new to me. I didn't like the idea, but the Tivo needed to regularly download schedule information and get the latest software updates. When I got my Harmony learning remote, the updates seemed like a real pain until I realized this is how it's done nowadays. Gear requires constant software and firmware update. This isn't unique to Blu-ray gear. Computers, Tivos/DVRs, remote controls, display devices, receivers, etc, etc....all need to be hooked up to the network if not all the time then once in a while.
The reason you think the PS3 is the only blu-ray player to not require updates is because it IS hooked up to the network and IS frequently being updated. That's just the way electronics manufacturers make their products nowadays. It has less to do with blu-ray than with the direction of the overall consumer electronics industry. I didn't like it either, at first. But if you set up a network and hook up all your gear, it's fairly easy.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
Follow Ups:
Why I would try to reason with a pitchman for Blewit Ray is beyond me. The upgrades should precede the discs coming out far enough in advance so no reviewer (!!!) or buyer gets a "Won't play" error message.
But you knew that. Pitch away.
You need to learn the issues before you inject yourself into a conversation.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
Not everyone wants to do update on a regular basis. I don't, and stopped updating my A1 a long time ago. My SXRD doesn't require any updates, and its as good or better than most plasmas out there. My Universal remote, a MX-500 doesn't do online updates either. Just because you choose gear that requires updating online, doen't mean everyone will, or want to.
Yes, I am aware that the PS3 gets updated regulaly.
For me, online updates require that I disconnect my computer, and hook up a 25' cable from my modem to my player(s). I'm lucky they are on the same floor of my house. I suspect I'm not the only one, and many won't or can't do it.
the masses will not tolerate this.
True story:
I went to Best Buy yesterday to pick up a Sharp BD player. On my way in, there was a guy ahead of me returning a Sony S300. I thought it was an amusing coincedence, but didn't think too much of it really. Walking around the store, I noticed that they had 3 open box S300s, as well as a couple regular ones. THAT was not a coincedence. Why do you think people are returning them? I can see one being defective, but not four. I'll bet what happened, is that they needed an update, and wouldn't play a disc the owner bought and expected to watch. A brand new $500 player won't play the newest movies? Take it back!
This kind of thing is OK for first generation gear, but we are at the second or third generation now.
Jack
Jazz Inmate=bailing water. Explaining away a product obviously not ready for prime time.
I know it's a pain. That's why eventually you will want to install a router and have your computer and all electronics hooked up to your network. It sounds complicated but it's pretty easy and cheap. But I agree with you. It's not intuitive and there is a disconnect in the way these young engineers are designing their products compared to the way older generations think of consumer electronics.The downloadable music industry sprouted up overnight and destroyed the record labels in much the same way. Ten years ago, my brother who is nine years younger than me said matter-of-factly that everyone will soon be downloading their music online. I didn't believe him, and I still don't get my music that way, but he was right in terms of the general public. Times are changing.
Regarding your observations about the BD players, I think it's amazing that anyone is even buying those machines. Yes, there are a lot of returns, I'm sure. You have to really understand home theater just to set up and operate all this gear nowadays, and the fact that HDMI is in a state of flux is going to cause some real issues with some people. You don't know for sure that Blu-ray is reason for those returns. Even the connector issues are confusing for people. We had component, then DVI and now HDMI. What is for sure is that there is much misinformation and confusion.
If many BD players are being returned, that means Blu-ray has generated a great deal of interest among consumers and that many BD players are being sold. It's still early in the game and I think rollout is going pretty smoothly, considering all the issues.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
> > Walking around the store, I noticed that they had 3 open box S300s, as well as a couple regular ones. < <
I posted last week that an appliance store chain in my region was doing a one-day below-cost blowout sale on the Sony S300. Turned out that most of the samples in the store near me were "open box." They only had one that was still factory-sealed.
That's not good. When I realised, I looked around, and noticed that there were NO open box Samsung 1400 (doesn't need an update), and NO open box HD DVD players.
Jack
I asked the salesguy at the store if the sole factory-sealed box was the only sealed one they had, and he told me, "No, we have a whole warehouse full of new ones."
Between that comment and the fact that they were blowing them out at below cost says to me that the players, or at least this particular model, aren't selling well.
OTOH, flat-panel TVs and $100 upconverting DVD players appeared to be flying off the shelves.
Yet another "problem release" in the vein of what we have been talking about. And this is Transformers, perhaps the biggest HD DVD exclusive release yet. I don't care about Transformers or these interactive features, but you've been bashing blu-ray for exactly this kind of thing. Will you bash the HD DVD? Fair is fair, but are you capable of being fair?Seems like it's an Ethernet "Network interaction" that Dreamworks was hoping to exploit on HD-DVD...and it crashed the disc. Not very consumer friendly, eh?
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
Yea, I heard there were a few problems.
Regardless, HD DVD is FAR more consumer freindly than Blu-Ray.
Jack
Have you conducted a poll? Just because your personal experience and the HD DUD skuad over at AVS refuses to acknowledge any positives for Blu-ray or any negatives for HD DVD--that doesn't make it so. Since you're focusing on your own observations, I'll repeat my own experience with Blu-ray...not one glitch so far. Do you think that's unusual? Based on what evidence? Until you can provide some, you might want to back off of these sweeping generalizations in which you totally ignore HD DVD problems and spotlight the supposed problems with blu-ray.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
No, I'm not surprised the PS3 has had no problems. that's part of the problem. I am well aware of the plusses and minuses of the two formats. After all, unlike you, I own both. BTW, if I had such hatred towards Blu-ray, why did I just buy another player yesterday? As I've said previously, I support both formats, but I do not like the way the BDA does things.
Jack
Yeah, I know that you say you are trying to give both formats a fair shot, but the fact is that you constantly rail on Blu-ray and you cannot say a bad word about HD DVD. That holds true even when HD DVD discs are shown to have problems and the format is known to have a lower capacity that manifests itself as an inability to include uncompressed PCM. In other words, you say you care about quality, but it's just not manifest in your take on the two formats.
I mean, your trip to the store to get a new BD player resulted in more ammunition for you to bash blu-ray. So no, it doesn't seem that you are interested in giving BD a fair shot. I wouldn't touch samsung with a 10 foot pole...that goes for their disc players, their display devices, etc.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
They had no players on the shelves for Black Friday-second gen was delayed so they barely got any out for Xmas. I BLASTED them for not putting out many titles December through March. Dumbest thing I'ld seen in ages. I caught alot of flack for that too.
> > > That holds true even when HD DVD discs are shown to have problems and the format is known to have a lower capacity that manifests itself as an inability to include uncompressed PCM. < < <
I haven't had many problems with HD DVD-2 discs had glitches out of 75. That's not bad, its not perfect either. As I've frequently said, I like uncompressed PCM, but its low on my priority list. My priorities go like this-1) content, 2) PQ, 3) features, 4) AQ.
> > > In other words, you say you care about quality, but it's just not manifest in your take on the two formats. < < <
No, its just that my priorities are different than yours-I don't know why you cannot accept that.
> > > I mean, your trip to the store to get a new BD player resulted in more ammunition for you to bash blu-ray. < < <
That's certainly not my fault, I didn't go there looking for problems, it just kind of hit me in the face.
BTW, I've had no problems with my Sharp player so far.
Jack
If you continue to have good experience with it, maybe you'll reevaluate your take on BD.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
> > Yeah, I know that you say you are trying to give both formats a fair shot, but the fact is that you constantly rail on Blu-ray and you cannot say a bad word about HD DVD. That holds true even when HD DVD discs are shown to have problems and the format is known to have a lower capacity that manifests itself as an inability to include uncompressed PCM. In other words, you say you care about quality, but it's just not manifest in your take on the two formats.
I mean, your trip to the store to get a new BD player resulted in more ammunition for you to bash blu-ray. So no, it doesn't seem that you are interested in giving BD a fair shot. I wouldn't touch samsung with a 10 foot pole...that goes for their disc players, their display devices, etc. < <
I'm preserving Jazz' post for posterity, just in case he thinks about deleting it, or realizes that he's again gone too far and decides to edit out the loony paranoid bits. :-)
what player did you buy?
I hear there may be issues with the seamless branching with Spiderman 2, but I don't intend to get any of those movies anyway. My preliminary testing has shown its played everything I've thrown at it (so far) without a glitch, and has a very good picture. Time will tell, I have 30 days.
JackPS. I decided not to wait for the Denon. It will be $2K, a little less for the lesser model, and that's just too much to spend on my tertiary format.
Since there are so few seamless branching Blu-ray discs on the market, Sharp may not have had enough evaluation material. Perhaps they can investigate why their player is being tripped up with that disc and design a fix to be implemented in a firmware update.
It's like arguing with a six-year-old.
> > BTW, if I had such hatred towards Blu-ray, why did I just buy another player yesterday? < <
I'm sure you did it just to annoy Jazz! ;-)
...every few months ? It's hard enough for this flat-earther to figure out how to burn a .iso image to disc, let alone having to download the disc off a flaky internet site. And even if the CE manufacturer mails you a disc, a power glitch in the middle of your firmware update will turn your player into a doorstop.
I also have to agree with the notion the PS3 is a game console whose shape screams "game console". Not very aesthetically pleasing for the snobbish equipment rack.
While it's Blu-ray playback was SOTA at the time (might still be for all I know), it didn't support 5.1 analog outputs. Without an HDMI-capable component, 5.1 analog output is my only access to lossless audio.
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