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In Reply to: RE: "Food for thought"...then start thinking, auph posted by Jazz Inmate on December 04, 2007 at 13:34:08
>>> "So now nielson ratings are 'skewed' and 'deceptive'?" <<<They always have been. Demographics and marketing play a role in every structured poll (actual numbers may be skewed toward target audiences rather than actual sales or popularity), and BTW, it's Nielsen ratings. ;0)
>>> "Sir spinsalot, couldn't it be because early adopters have educated themselves about the formats, decided blu-ray is the way to go and are consistently out-adopting HD-DVD and buying BD titles at a clip of 2-to-1 over HD DVD adopters." <<<
Sure and the tooth fairy could leave you another mortgage payment under your pillow if you'll just place your dentures there overnight. ;^D
>>> "I mean, that's what the data show." <<<
Really? Have you ever considered that it might just be YOUR interpretation of the data provided?
>>> "You ignore the capacity issues, the audio issues and now the Nielson data." <<<
Wrong again, m'bucko. I don't ignore any of the issues, I just address them pragmatically, in respect to their overall importance on a personal level.
>>> "This is clearly not an issue you can face with honesty and sincerity." <<<
Here again you try to question my honesty when you're the dude carrying pom-poms and moving from rally to rally like a distressed schoolgirl hoping to be anointed 'pom' queen. Rah! Rah! :o)
AuPh
Edits: 12/04/07Follow Ups:
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
;^D
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
So, Jazz finally admits it's all about how much money one pays rather than the evaluated PQ!> > > "...it's just as good" < < <
Maybe it is, especially if one can't see that much difference between the formats.
> > > "I hate to break it to you, but YOU are the one buying the cheap crap..." < < <
Keep breaking stuff like that to me, it just helps to make my case and leave folks with the impression that you are biased, intolerant and disrespectful of other folks opinions and gear.
Cheers,
AuPh
> > Keep breaking stuff like that to me, it just helps to make my case and leave folks with the impression that you are biased, intolerant and disrespectful of other folks opinions and gear. < <
That's pretty funny considering I just replied to a thread where racer and Jack were attacking my system and you've been dishing out ZS Kekl style character assassination attempts for the past two weeks. Dish it out and ya gotta be prepared to take it, ZS AUPH.
And don't forget: YOU admitted that cost was a major (I say THE major) consideration in your decision to go HD DVD. It certainly wasn't important issues like capacity or audio--that's obvious.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
> > I just replied to a thread where racer and Jack were attacking my system < <
So - mentioning the technical specifications of your television is "attacking" it?
Could you please explain the tortured thought process that caused you to come up with that notion? Thanks.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
...but then I realize that it's mostly bull! ;0)
AuPh
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
... as easily as you're seduced by blue fan-boy propaganda, it's probably between your buns.
Just teasin', natch! ;O)
Cheers,
AuPh
...that YOU are a major fibber; it's sad that you feel the need to distort with every post.> > > "...you raise the specter of mtrycrafts and then wonder why I'm telling you that you get what you pay for" < < <
I raise the specter of mtrycrafts because you have developed a similar modus operandi: one of frequent obnoxious posts, posturing, cheer-leading, and distortions based on the religious support of one technology or agenda.
> > > "That's pretty funny considering I just replied to a thread where racer and Jack were attacking my system and you've been dishing out ZS Kekl style character assassination attempts for the past two weeks. Dish it out and ya gotta be prepared to take it, ZS AUPH." < < <
Oh yeah, Jazz pleas the "poor me" defense after a parade of posts where he dished out loads of derogatory comments in the direction of folks who failed to support his Blu-ray agenda. Your chutzpah is so outrageous that it would embarrass the black pot and might even leave the abused kettle slack jawed. ;0)
BTW, the ZS KEKL reference isn't character assassination; in your case it's type-casting. He's merely the yin to your yang; the A side to your B side; the heads to your tails! You're both cheer-leaders albeit from opposite poles, or maybe I should say polarizations, but as incredible as it may seem, I think that you're even more of a fan-boy than he!
> > I raise the specter of mtrycrafts because you have developed a similar modus operandi: one of frequent obnoxious posts, posturing, cheer-leading, and distortions based on the religious support of one technology or agenda. < <
Apparently, your confusion has spread from HD media to other areas. mtrycrafts was the guy who became notorious for claiming all cables sound the same and $100 CD players have the same audio as $5000 CD players. Since your position is that two HD media with vastly different capacities are qualitatively equivalent, YOU are essentially mtrycraft in this argument.
> > Oh yeah, Jazz pleas the "poor me" defense after a parade of posts where he dished out loads of derogatory comments in the direction of folks who failed to support his Blu-ray agenda. < <
I don't care if you support blu-ray or not. I do care if you pretend capacity and audio are not important characteristics and try to lie about price being your most important concern after you pretty much already admitted it.
> > the ZS KEKL reference isn't character assassination; in your case it's type-casting. He's merely the yin to your yang; the A side to your B side; the heads to your tails! < <
Not even remotely. ZS isn't a detail oriented person, and though you seem to have that capacity it hit the snooze button when you wanted to wake up and choose an HD format.
> > You're both cheer-leaders albeit from opposite poles, or maybe should I say polarizations, but as incredible as it may seem, I think that you're even more of a fan-boy than he! < <
That's because you're irrational. I've already told you, if HD DVD had greater capacity, that's the format I would have adopted. It's a logical position, whereas your decision to adopt HD DVD can't be explained by logic. You're the format fanboy and I'm merely an advocate for choosing greater capacity, as are directors like Michael Bay and Stephen Spielberg who care about they way their films are produced for their fans. That's why there is no way you can win this argument. Maybe you haven't read Bay's latest comments:
"Does anyone out here want to challenge what I feel suits my films better in terms of look. I see every frame of my films over a hundred times before it is ever released. I know the lighting conditions I shot it and the result on the DI. I know the range. I know what the final product should look like - Blu Ray suits my films better. But that said - I don't a care about this format war because I have both formats in my screening room - I'm just filling you in on what people deep in the film industry feel ultimately is going on"
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
... as mtrycrafts, it's about HOW you sell it. Face it dude, you and he have similar styles and you both push your biases relentlessly.> > > "I don't care if you support blu-ray or not." < < <
Folks, get out of the way of his nose, that snorter should be growing like a Chia-pet.
> > > "I do care if you pretend capacity and audio are not important characteristics and try to lie about price being your most important concern after you pretty much already admitted it." < < <
Never said price wasn't a factor, but it was N-E-V-E-R my first consideration. I don't give a rat's patootie what you think, but for those who haven't kept pace with this ongoing debate it's always been films of interest which come first and foremost, at least with me.
As for capacity and audio, the issues of capacity and lossless audio will be resolved just like they were with standard format DVD. The fact that Blu-ray has greater capacity isn't important as far as viewing movies in high definition unless there are observable differences between the two formats with Blu-ray appearing noticeably better or the space is utilized for enhanced content of interest to consumers.
> > > "...ZS isn't a detail oriented person..." < < <
True, but like you he's a single-minded cheer-leader and devoted fan-boy for his format of choice.
> > > "I've already told you, if HD DVD had greater capacity, that's the format I would have adopted." < < <
Fine, I'm glad that you enjoy Blu-ray, and I've never criticized you for your choice. My issue with your attitude is that you leave no room for others choosing HD-DVD for the reasons that we select that format, not to mention the fact that some of us get tired of looking at those blue pom-poms all day long! ;O)
The bottom line: You either accuse folks of being foolish because they don't share your capacity concerns, or accuse them of being cheap because they consider price and value or you call them liars when they tell you that their favorite movies are offered only on HD-DVD, and that there aren't enough films of interest being released on Blu-ray.
> > > "...whereas your decision to adopt HD DVD can't be explained by logic. You're the format fanboy and I'm merely an advocate for choosing greater capacity..." < < <
I'm not going to call you a liar, but you've condemned yourself by your own words. Please don't bring advocacy down to your fan-boy level, because advocacy implies intelligent, rational discourse and acceptance of the possibility that things may not be as black and white as you'd like them to be.
I've stated many times that I don't have a dog in this hunt and discuss both formats fairly even though HD-DVD is the only format in our home currently, but you've been waving your tattered chartreuse pom-poms with prissy abandon for months around here (before this format war is over I'll wager that you'll have ratcheted things up to flaunting a feather boa! -grin).
Note: While price wasn't a major factor with my selecting HD-DVD, the discrepancy in price between HD-DVD & Blu-ray hardware could be a factor when it comes to return on investment (bang for buck), but I am still considering a dual format player at some point if it handles both formats efficiently enough.
> > > "...Michael Bay and Stephen Spielberg..." < < <
LOL! Need I say more? OK, I will! Karnac the Magnificent question: "Who directs movies as deep as a kiddie pool and as flawless as paste jewelry?"
BTW, I've read Bay's comments linked from that site, and you should read some of the responses. Rodney Dangerfield would've felt respected after reading those posts. ;^D
Cheers,
AuPh
Just so you're aware (although I don't know how you've managed to miss it during your entire online experience) snake-oil is what naysayers like mtrycraft accuse audiophiles of pushing. So congrats. You are proving yourself even more like mtrycraft with each successive post.> > Never said price wasn't a factor, but it was N-E-V-E-R my first consideration. < <
Obviously it was. You went for the cheaper product. Another mtrycraft-ism.
> > I don't give a rat's patootie what you think, < <
Obviously you do.
> > but for those who haven't kept pace with this ongoing debate it's always been films of interest which come first and foremost, at least with me. < <
You have shown great interest in the spidey and pirates trilogies. So obviously the "films of interest" yarn is not accurate either.
> > As for capacity and audio, the issues of capacity and lossless audio will be resolved just like they were with standard format DVD. < <
That sure seems eye-poppingly inaccurate, too.
> > Fine, I'm glad that you enjoy Blu-ray, and I've never criticized you for your choice. < <
Another inaccuracy! Man, ZS AUPHL, you're going for broke.
> > My issue with your attitude is that you leave no room for others choosing HD-DVD for the reasons that the select that format, < <
I leave plenty of room. It's just that none of you have been able to cite reasons for your choices without filling the room with complete nonsense. When you can't even admit that capacity is an important issue in HD media, most of the logic is drained out of your position. You dispense with the rest by admitting that you don't care about audio! And the weird thing is that you seem proud of that.
> > The bottom line: You either accuse folks of being foolish because they don't share your capacity concerns, < <
How can you even evaluate the formats without acknowledging capacity as a critical issue? Of course you're foolish to ignore it.
> > I'm not going to call you a liar, but you've condemned yourself by your own words. Please don't bring advocacy down to your fan-boy level, because advocacy implies intelligent, rational discourse and acceptance of the possibility that things may not be as black and white as you'd like them to be. < <
There's no grey area here. Blu-ray has a 50-gig capacity. HD DVD has a 30-gig capacity. High def A/V files are big. Lossless high def A/V files are bigger still. Capacity is therefore an important concern. These are facts.
> > I've stated many times that I don't have a dog in this hunt < <
ANOTHER inaccuracy! You're financially and emotionally invested in HD DVD and your posting history proves it. If you don't like being called a liar, the best thing you can do is stop lying.
> > BTW, I've read Bay's comments linked from that site, and you should read some of the responses. Rodney Dangerfield would've felt respected after reading those posts. < <
Well, what about your response? Are you just going to ignore what a filmmaker says about the formats? Obviously, Bay knows what film looks like. He knows what HD DVD looks like and what blu-ray looks like. Are you going to ignore these facts and join the idiots who are insulting him, even though they lack the experience or requisite viewing to discount his observations?
Use your head for a moment. What's Bay's motivation? He has financial incentive to say good things about HD DVD. His blockbuster film is out on HD DVD and he is signed to a studio not releasing BDs at the moment. So what's his motivation to say Blu-ray is better? The only reason I can think of is because that's what he has observed. If you don't have a better explanation or observations from other industry insiders that counter Bay's, you may want to consider the distinct possibility that capacity does play a role in quality when it comes to HD.
-------------
"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
> > > "...snake-oil is what naysayers like mtrycraft accuse audiophiles of pushing." < < <
Snake oil is snake oil; mtrycrafts didn't originate the concept, he just exploited it as you have exploited misconceptions of Blu-ray's superiority based on one factor which has thus far been proven negligible.
> > > "Obviously it was. You went for the cheaper product. Another mtrycraft-ism." < < <
You are full of Shinola or rather what you think is Shinola. If you choose to ignore the facts as I've stated them then that's your own problem.
> > > "Obviously you do." < < <
Nope, I just care about correcting inaccuracies that mislead other folks. You took my comment out of context. I guess you lack the 'capacity' for telling the truth. ;0)
> > > "You have shown great interest in the spidey and pirates trilogies. So obviously the "films of interest" yarn is not accurate either." < < <
More baloney; I only mentioned those titles in passing and then only in the context of possible dual format releases. Other films were of greater interest to me and those I listed earlier.
Well, I could go on correcting your deceptions, but why waste my time and that of others on this forum.
Regards,
AuPh
> > More baloney; I only mentioned those titles in passing and then only in the context of possible dual format releases. Other films were of greater interest to me and those I listed earlier. < <
More lies. You gushed about them repeatedly on the film forum. Do I need to dig up your posts to remind you?
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
... but what has that to do with placing either series at the top of my HD-DVD want list? There are other films which hold as great or greater interest for a film collector such as myself. Certainly you will find at least as strong reviews from your's truly associated with John Carpenter's The Thing (if you bother to look), which I consider closer to John W. Campbell's original story (written under his nom de plume Don A. Stuart) than the 50's cold war version. Furthermore, I've always held the highest regard for classics such as Forbidden Planet and Casablanca.Before calling someone a "liar" maybe you should get all of your ducks in a row and your own prevarications organized! ;^D
> > > "Do I need to dig up your posts to remind you?" < < <
Please do, but while you're at it maybe you should also dig up all of the positive comments I've made in respect to John Carpenter's The Thing for comparisons sake (since The Thing is one of the HD titles not available on Blu-ray).
Ciao,
AuPh
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