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In Reply to: RE: You have peaked my interest... posted by budget fi on December 16, 2007 at 09:25:54
I am still in research mode on Onkyo 805 and 705.
The link have a review of 805, giving it reference status in the pricerange. The 705 is only a prereview.
They find 805 better than Marantz SR 8001 and Yamaha RX-V2700
This is a German review, and the bass impact and precision of sound is described as very impressive. It is an outstanding good review.
My old experience with BB and Crystal, is that Crystal sounds sweeter and BB have better impact in the bass, but a bit sandpaper like in the treble. I have tried both in my products.
The Crystal structure was 1 bit (DSD like) and had build in balanced voltage out, the BB was multibit and current out. The current means that BB need more external circuit giving rise to more different sounds.
BB have since changed to making a mixed structure, and so have Crystal.
I have great respect for both BB and Crystal. So I should rephrase it,
with a Crystal DAC there is less design work and parts done by Onkyo.
This is not to critical of Onkyo, who do great job, and in my experience make the best sounding HT receivers.
But both 805 and 705 are limited by their pricepoint, and in both 805 (BB PCM 1796) and 705 (Crystal DCS 4398) the DACs are better than the recievers.
The CS 4398 offers 128 times oversampling, which I have good experience with for CD reproduction. A very smooth and non-mechanical sound.
About DSD
The manual for 805 write, that in all other modes than DSD direct mode, the sound is done in PCM.
The Manual for 705 write that in all modes DSD is done by PCM.
For me this is strange, because the Crystal CS 4398 DAC also can do DSD direct.
In fact it is designed specific for DSD and SACD with patented features.
It could be a printing mistake. I need to check.
It is a small point relevant only for those SACD discs, which are pure DSD recordings. With HDMI the DSD signal can go from the SACD player to the DAC in the Onkyo, and here be converted to analog signals, while staying in the the DSD format all the time.
SONY and some listeners think staying in DSD is very important.
Follow Ups:
I had been about ready to buy a Denon AVR-3808 (~$1600US) without any meaningful audition, but if there's a chance that I can just walk to Circuit City and buy an Onkyo for half the price and get better sound, I'm there! But the 805 may literally be more receiver than I want: ~30 kg worth! I think I'd like something a bit smaller and easier to carry, so maybe a 705 for me too?
I don't want sonics that are TOO smooth. Right now, it seems to me that even through the small speakers built into my Sharp TV, the 24/96 soundtracks are more in-your-face, and have more "bite", and I kind of like that.
I have now a written answer from Onkyo headoffice in Germany.
They write, that the manual is correct. The Onkyo TX-SR705 does accept a DSD signal, but it converts it to PCM.
So if maintaining pure DSD to DAC on HDMI from a SACD player is important for you, the Onkyo TX-SR705 is out, and you need to go up in price to a Onkyo TX-SR805.
The area DVD test also compared the Onkyo TX-SR805 to the older Denon AVR-4306. The Denon lost clearly in all aspects of sound. The new Denons are mentioned but not tested yet.
They also played "1812", and mentioned excellent wide and deep stereo.
Voices were outstandingly well done.
The Marantz was descibed with words like "poison" and "spiting" compared to Onkyo.
The text is interesting because Onkyo 805 have both more impact, more attack for modern music and explosions, and also more harmonic and fine detail for voice and classical.
It is very seldom I read such a review.
But other of the new Onkyos like 875 have also gotten outstanding reviews.
The weak point of these HT recievers is the small powersupply, if all channels play loud at the same time.
So my plan is to use the pre out and my big amps for left and right. Then the HT reciever will work much better driving only center, and the weaker side and rear signals.
Your room looks special. 8x8x8? I once heard a big cubic room, and it sounded very good, in spite of the simple minded claims against it.
My nearest dealer for the 705 is within walking distance and I don't think I will be taxing it very hard: I bought my first pair of B&W LM-1s, and even my 300b SET amp (7 watt) drives them effortlessly.
I was leaning toward Marantz or Denon but will probably go for the Onkyo based on your recommendation. Of course I will listen first even though it is kind of hard to gauge with other speakers, cables, source ect.
Thanks again for taking the time to thoughly answer my questions.
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