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"...take care of the car"

74.251.34.133
Posted on November 6, 2008 at 20:41:39
Joe Murphy Jr
Audiophile

Posts: 4424
Joined: February 3, 2001
 "car'll take care of you."

When it hits Blu-ray in 2009, you can be sure Fox won't catch a Warner Bros: look for 5.1 channels of DTS-HD Master Audio.

 

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RE: "...take care of the car", posted on November 7, 2008 at 08:07:12
Jack G
Audiophile

Posts: 9741
Joined: September 24, 1999
 But if its from Fox, you can be sure it won't play on stand alone players.
Jack

 

two awesome deals on the best blu player, posted on November 7, 2008 at 19:08:39
Joe Murphy Jr
Audiophile

Posts: 4424
Joined: February 3, 2001
 Saturday November 8th, Wal-Mart will offer the PS3 for $399 and give you a $100 Gift Card:

http://arstechnica.com/journals/thumbs.ars/2008/11/07/this-saturday-walmart-will-give-you-100-to-buy-a-ps3

and then there's the Dell deal to get a PS3 for $339:

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?p=1288147#post1288147

Of course, if you'd rather whine about the PS3 instead, have at it: a lifetime membership in the Bitch&Moan Club of America is free.

 

The Oppo BDP-83 is coming pretty soon; that might be the better deal flexibility wise., posted on November 7, 2008 at 23:46:06
Audiophilander
Audiophile

Posts: 30200
Location: Fort Worth (D/FW Metroplex)
Joined: March 31, 2000
 It's always going to be an issue of cost verses satisfaction; Oppos aren't cheap and never have been, but they've consistently offered the best bang (versatility) for the buck and their customer support should put their product on every A/V-phile's short list.

AuPh

 

That's not the answer, posted on November 8, 2008 at 06:04:56
Jack G
Audiophile

Posts: 9741
Joined: September 24, 1999
 You are basically admitting that the BDA is incapable of making movies that play on all players. That makes Blu-ray little more than the PS3 format. Lets face it, 3 out of 6 of the Bond discs had issues. That's just incompetent. For all your whining about Speed Racer's lack of lossless, at least the disc PLAYED.
Oh, and BTW, If I wanted a PS3, I'd have one by now.
Jack

 

Mebbe, posted on November 8, 2008 at 08:54:54
Kal Rubinson
Reviewer

Posts: 12443
Location: New York
Joined: June 5, 2002
 Now, I do not offer myself as representative of any significant part of the users market but I have used a half dozen or more BD players from Pioneer, Sony and Denon. On the program materials that I use (yes, mostly music/opera/ballet discs but also a weekly rented mainstream BD movie from BlockBuster), all of them have played on every player. There was a wide variation in the availability and playability of the HD codecs but everyone was playable without issue.

Kal

 

can't test every player, posted on November 8, 2008 at 09:30:33
Joe Murphy Jr
Audiophile

Posts: 4424
Joined: February 3, 2001
 The manufacturers need to keep their firmware up to date and make sure their products meet all of the Blu-ray specs, which have not changed, without exception. Yes, the PS3 is a powerful machine, but it too needs firmware updates, usually when a part of the spec which hasn't been used comes into play: SCE makes sure it gets updated as needed. There's no reason other manufactures can't do the same.

If the software is in spec, the player is at fault. So far, no one has shown that any Blu-ray disc is out of spec. The problems therefore stem from the CE manufacturers, not the studios/replicators.

 

probably not "soon", posted on November 8, 2008 at 09:42:05
Joe Murphy Jr
Audiophile

Posts: 4424
Joined: February 3, 2001
 There's been discussion about what capabilities they want at launch and what could be added after release. There's also a pricing issue that they're having to deal with.

I believe my prediction was Q2 09: unless they can resolve the above issues soon, that time may be more likely than not.

 

Actually you can, posted on November 8, 2008 at 10:50:24
Jack G
Audiophile

Posts: 9741
Joined: September 24, 1999
 How many players are there, a dozen or so? Its not that hard really.
Remember, Paramount recalled (and replaced) all Ironman discs not too long before they were to be released, because of authoring issues. Word is, that it wouldn't play on all players. It can be done, if the studio really cares.
Lets be honest, this is mostly an issue with Fox discs. This last batch of problem discs effected the Sharp, most Sammys and LGs, as well as several of the Sony players. If Fox is going to play musical BD+ every few months, its going to cause problems. The masses aren't going to want to have to deal with FW updates. All movies should be able to play in all players. period.

>>>If the software is in spec, the player is at fault<<<
But what if the player(s) is in spec too? If the player came first, then the software should be compatible.
Jack

 

Sooner than you think; my guess is Q1 '09; probably February, but perhaps earlier., posted on November 10, 2008 at 19:39:49
Audiophilander
Audiophile

Posts: 30200
Location: Fort Worth (D/FW Metroplex)
Joined: March 31, 2000
 It looks to me like they're getting pretty close to rollout! :o)

 

reread my comment, posted on November 10, 2008 at 21:28:57
Joe Murphy Jr
Audiophile

Posts: 4424
Joined: February 3, 2001
 Especially the "I believe my prediction was Q2 09: unless they can resolve the above issues soon, that time may be more likely than not." part. My original prediction was made months ago and, as I said, unless they get the ball rolling faster, it may be Q2 09 before they will release the player.

Here's a link to my prediction:

 

then be my guest, posted on November 10, 2008 at 21:48:41
Joe Murphy Jr
Audiophile

Posts: 4424
Joined: February 3, 2001
 A dozen or so? Below is a link to a player list (about 30 players). It only took me a few seconds to count off 7 players (all more than a month old) not on that list. How many more do they have that I didn't count? What happens when there's 50, 70 or 100+ players? Your comment falls flat -- even now.

What I'm sure we can agree on is that the studios/authoring houses/replicators need to work with the player manufactures before mass production of the disc takes place.

I'd go further by suggesting that a sample disc could be sent to each manufacturer to test in their players and the manufacturers could be given a time-frame (1 month maximum, in my opinion) to get their asses in gear and write firmware updates for their players which would need it or figure out if the disc is incompatible for other reasons.

Here's the obviously-not-updated BD player

 

RE: then be my guest, posted on November 11, 2008 at 05:22:25
Jack G
Audiophile

Posts: 9741
Joined: September 24, 1999
 OK 30ish, that's still not a big deal-we aren't talking hundreds here. The point is, problems can be found and dealt with before the discs hit the street, if the studio cares, as Paramount proved. Fox just doesn't give a damn. Why people defend Fox's clear contempt for their customers (or total incompetence) is beyond me.
Jack

 

re: your deleted post, posted on November 11, 2008 at 20:34:26
Joe Murphy Jr
Audiophile

Posts: 4424
Joined: February 3, 2001
 You deleted before I hit "post", but here's my reply anyway:

I hope you're closer to the actual release date than I am. I have an oppo 983 DVD player and can attest to their commitment to video (audio is pretty good, given the price-point).

My only concern is that they release the player when it's fully capable of delivering on its feature list -- not before. For example, they should not release the player if it can't decode DTS-HD Master Audio to PCM and deliver the codec via bitstream. Since it will be a Profile 2.0 player, it should be BD Live capable on Day 1, not via a firmware update.

As for All-Region DVD playback, that would be nice. However, I don't think that's an option that people should count on due to the player being a Blu-ray player first. The chips on the inside and what they're allowed to "get around" are a bit more strict via the Blu-ray format.



 

Sorry Joe, I was just in the process of reediting it from last night; weird coincidence, huh?, posted on November 11, 2008 at 21:15:01
Audiophilander
Audiophile

Posts: 30200
Location: Fort Worth (D/FW Metroplex)
Joined: March 31, 2000
 I thought that the response I deleted sounded just a little too argumentative, which wasn't my intent. It was rather late when I posted it last night.

Your point about Oppo getting around the Blu-ray region restriction is well taken and I've read similar denials from knowledgeable folks on other forums, but in this area Oppo is caught between a rock and a hard place. My sense is that many fans of Oppo players remain loyal because all of their prior players get around region restrictions very easily. It was one of the key selling points on which the company built it's reputation. That, and Oppo's first rate customer support.

My suspicion is that there will be a slightly more complicated under-the-table BD region hack to avoid DVD consortium radar. There's already at least one BD player on the market (an LG, as I recall) that can be switched between regions and I doubt that Oppo will give up their faithful return customers to the competition without a fight. Like you I have a 983 and relish it's performance (audio & video), but it would be nice to purchase an Oppo unit that has similar flexibility for Blu-ray, especially if it addresses frustrating region lock-out issues that plague collectors and it's price point is competitive with other high performance BD players.

AuPh

 

region code and support, posted on November 13, 2008 at 20:38:24
Joe Murphy Jr
Audiophile

Posts: 4424
Joined: February 3, 2001
 Region coding is pretty much useless for the DVD format these days, so it's kind of stupid for studios to keep using it. Other countries either force the manufatcurers to have their players play region-coded DVDs or force manufacturers to tell their customers how to "hack" the player. The irony is that the only country which suffers through the use of region-coding is the US -- the very country it was "designed" to benefit!

As for oppo, they make some very fine DVD players. Any complaints about their players are either petty or concern users who are in a very niche part of the movie watching crowd. The only complaint I have about the 983 is that the audio delay, when using the analog audio outputs, is not enough for 1080i output. The slight delay reinterlacing the deinterlaced 1080p video is very noticeable on my display. I'm forced to use 720p and, after numerous comparisons, it isn't as sharp as 1080i from the player on my display. Since most people don't use the player in this fashion (most use HDMI or the optical/coax output), I'm definitely in the minority. This is only a temporary setup, so it's not a big deal.

As for oppo support, my mileage did vary. I tried a firmware update not too long after I received the player. I followed the directions line-by-line, step-by-step using a flash drive. The process and the resulting flash/display/player interaction was NOT how they described it on the site. I got the firmware update to work, but decided to send them an email -- just in case other people had the same problem. The email I received back was an unexpected shocker. Everyone and their grandmother has basically bowed at oppo's customer service feet, but I had a very different view of them after the email: the sender basically said I was a liar and what I said appeared on the screen didn't. I'll admit to not having 20/20 vision, but looking at a 50" display from 4ft away and a player's display less than 2ft away leaves little room for error when you're basically just observing what's happening right there in front of you.

Suffice it to say that not until I see that douchebag prick who sent me the reply email from oppo give head to an elephant, and swallow, would I agree that oppo gives their customer's good "service".

 

Why are you so sure Paramount recalled and changed all Iron Man Blu-ray discs?, posted on November 16, 2008 at 17:04:55
Jazz Inmate
Audiophile

Posts: 63589
Location: Bay Area, California
Joined: April 5, 2000
 I read that rumor too. Paramount did not substantiate it, nor did any industry insiders.

LG, Samsung and Sharp make lots of crappy products that don't work the way they're supposed to. Blu-ray is the least of their problems, so you may want to hold manufacturer's to some standards rather than whining about a format that has worked perfectly for most adopters. I'm sorry your experience with it has been poor, but it may be a bit of self-fulfilling prophecy.
-------------

Call it, friendo.

 

You forgot Sony, posted on November 17, 2008 at 06:27:09
Jack G
Audiophile

Posts: 9741
Joined: September 24, 1999
 Two or three of Sony's stand alone players wouldn't play the troublesome bond movies either. Sony makes crappy products too, that don't work like they are supposed to, but you already knew that.

>>>so you may want to hold manufacturer's to some standards<<<
That's what I am doing, including software manufacturers, despite the fact that the BDA doesn't. Why you give them a free ride is beyond me.
Jack

 

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