I hate lcd TV's

Get over it. The CRT is going the way of the DoDo bird., posted on September 7, 2009 at 20:17:06
Wendell Narrod	If you don't like LCD, buy a Plasma. That's my favorite but the LCDs are getting better. I have a LCD, a LCD rear projection and a Plasma. The Plasma is the best, in my opinion.

RE: I hate lcd TV's, posted on September 7, 2009 at 20:19:39
Abel McCain	You can find plenty of great deals on used CRT's. Look for the Sony XBR series.

Computer graphic arts users have had the same sentiments., posted on September 7, 2009 at 21:38:28
free.ranger Audiophile Posts: 16964 Location: Santa Fe, NM Joined: April 8, 2004 Contributor Since: January 7, 2005	Thinking particularly of digital photographers, critical color and contrast adjustments have been much more dependable with crt's, but the industry is forcing the issue, based mostly on entertainment usage. Lcd's have improved tremendously, so much of the early criticisms have tapered off. It's interesting to note the parallel dislike.

I just retrieved an old B&O from the curb so I could watch the sports!, posted on September 7, 2009 at 22:30:58
Frihed89 Audiophile Posts: 15703 Location: Copenhagen Joined: March 21, 2005	I had to get some kind of box to make it work with the antenna. It doesn't look as clear as the new ones you see in the stores.

RE: I hate lcd TV's, posted on September 8, 2009 at 02:48:05
cawson@onetel.com Audiophile Posts: 2389 Joined: September 27, 2004	Lot's of comparisons here between LCD and Plasma, but has anyone got first hand opinions of LED TVs? Not many about yet, but "claimed" to be very good - and green.

Yes ~t, posted on September 8, 2009 at 04:09:44
three_sox	`

Who would waste money on a new "Television" ? A completely dead medium !, posted on September 8, 2009 at 05:37:27

Bambi B
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Location: Los Angeles
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PAINTING: "American Zenith, 1958"

Perfume,

Rant: The problem is not television technology, which improves and lowers in cost daily, but the potentials for viewing. Though I saw a lot of TV as a tot, and have a pile of channels, I have increasingly less interest. Cable news is just crap, FOX "News" is a national embarrassment- friends in Europe honestly believe that either it's a deliberate parody or special programming for "special needs" people- and CNN unwatchable- the "floppy arm fear-o'-the day school of impressionistic journalism". I haven't watched network- except "The Simpsons"- for 25 years, but do watch a bit of arts, history, and science programming as well as movies.

The main problem is that these days, I can't tolerate 5 seconds of advertising anymore plus the constant shit run during the programmes and logos etc in the frame during movies. Even IFC, a long time holdout as a self-described defender of the pure movie experience runs ads during the movies and puts it's frucklin logo in the frame. The movie channels are nearly a complete waste and I'm thinking seriously of changing to 2-at-a-time Netflix. The only good feature of movie channels are those rare gems that I might not ever hear about. Though I have many friends with similar musical, automotive, artistic, and equipment tastes, only one also has a similar taste in movies.

I'm perhaps am not the most informed commentator on which TV to buy as the 32" Sony (2005) I have is only the third TV I've ever owned. It replaced a 27" Sony XBR of 1994 that went up in smoke with a Pioneer DVD player when the electrical contractor was working on the house- otherwise I'd probably be watching that one. The 32" cost about $550 and I think it's among the swan songs of the CRT- a very good picture, very good sound, plenty of inputs, many programmable features and adjustments including picture modes.

Therein's a very important lesson about television and monitor technology that it gets both better and cheaper, but when it is a good idea to change? In situations where an advanced technology is not strictly necessary, waiting to buy is like money in the bank,..

The Future: Despite my subject title, there has been superb programming and I think TV has a long, influential, and highly profitable future and when it grows up to be an adult, could be a positive force- but it's unlikely for a long time.

And though it will be along time before I replace the 32" Sony CRT- it's good enough for my use- I do keep a low-level watch on the various TV technologies and I have to say, Blu-Ray on a big plasma screen is amazingly good - the first time I saw it, I was drawn across the showroom floor from 50'- it was just that obviously better. The 1080 LCD's are getting to be very, very good, LED is promising, and even the giant LCD projection screens are becoming of acceptable quality. I well remember the horror of early front projection sets that were washed out if there was a candle burning in the neighbour's house and the image would disappear is you moved 8" off axis. Price is an important aspect for me and the plasma and LCD's continue to drop to being nearly attractive. When I can buy a 42" 1080 line panel for under $1,000- and Blu Ray survives- I might do it. -I remember fondly too when the first large Philips plasma cost $15,000.

As I'm typing, I'm watching on another of the last CRT monitors offered- a 22" NEC - about $450 in 2006. Computers monitors are clearly a realm where I can't see any benefit of any kind to CRT- go directly to LCD. I spend a lot of time with CAD and my next monitor will be a 28" or larger LCD- those will have to improve and drop a bit further in price.

As for adopting a new TV technology, I'll let that purchase be a celebration when my personal recession is over- and after a new computer monitor, new cartridge, new speakers, and new Jaguar roadster- which will have to be a used 2014 model. By that calculation, I'll probably be on the market fro a new TV in about 10 years,..

Happy hunting!

Cheers,

Bambi B

I Like LCD TV's., posted on September 8, 2009 at 06:31:12

Self-Inflicted
Audiophile

Posts: 1207
Joined: January 4, 2008

I have an LG 37LG6000 HD LCD TV and its the best TV I've ever owned, picture is superb providing you set up the colors and sound yourself, I will be changing my Sky+ receiver to an HD one at some point but I'm in no rush. I recommend wall mounting an LCD TV with wall brackets that have a slight tilt adjustment. However, I did have a compatibility problem (muting) with the Sky+ receiver which was solved with an LG software update. And one other thing, the mounting holes on the back of the TV are in line vertically with the power cord socket which limited the hight of the TV, I solved this by cutting off 3" of the wall brackets.

Regards,
Mike.

RE: I hate lcd TV's, posted on September 8, 2009 at 07:38:59
SgreenP@MSN.com Audiophile Posts: 3538 Joined: April 23, 2007	My Sony LCD is wonderful. When I looked at plasmas there was way too much reflection for its placement in the room. Burnout, although less easy than in previous iterations is still a problem. I'm keeping my LCD.

Is that really something to "hate"?, posted on September 8, 2009 at 11:01:52

M3 lover
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Contributor
Since: July 4, 2007

Yes I'll admit the CRT offered advantages (black blacks) but are the LCDs, or plasmas, really so awful? Several months ago I replaced my 27" Sony with a 47" Samsung and my viewing experience (read: enjoyment) has been improved in multiple ways.

But I do agree with Bambi, the broadcast source material is mostly laughable. Therefore I've watched a lot of DVDs; and since installing the Samsung I've not bothered to set up my Sony projector (projector and screen are not permanently installed, but set up is easy and quite quick).

And sorry Wendell, I do feel programing is related to how we watch so not off target from OP at all.

"The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing, if you can fake that you've got it made." Groucho

RE: I hate lcd TV's, posted on September 8, 2009 at 11:51:52

mauimusicman

I don't have the problem you do with non tube televisions (I have a new Sony 46" LCD and it's wonderfull) but I do have a problem with this digital format. My new 46" television has a viewable screen smaller than my previous 32" Sny tube model when watching high def content. There is a 4" black bar on both top and bottom and about 3" on each side. And no, it's nothing to do with settings, according to Time Warner, anyway.
My HD cable box self destrucks monthly from heat. Couldn't afford heat sinks, I guess. Whatever happened to all the claims and promises made by the industry as how we would have multiple channels of every station? Now they say "It's too expensive" Promises made to get things done, then quicly abandoned. Sounds like politics to me. Fox News Sucks.

RE: I hate lcd TV's, posted on September 8, 2009 at 12:44:46
Dawnrazor Audiophile Posts: 12614 Location: N. California Joined: April 9, 2004	WHy do you hate LCD, I am curious. Cut to razor sounding violins

Ok, now would you tell us why?, posted on September 8, 2009 at 14:54:16
Abel McCain	I happen to like the picture quality of the older CRT sets. But I don't despise LCD or Plasma. I'm curious as to why you hate LCD...

CRT TV's thrive in poor countries, posted on September 8, 2009 at 16:09:00

kurt s

I was in Thailand in June and looked at some TV displays just because they sell much differently than in the US.

Over there, an average CRT TV from Sony, about 30" or thereabouts, sells for about $100 and less. There are some $30 models for smaller ones. They sell more CRT TV's in Thailand than any other kind for its lower price. In the USA, I saw a 21" CRT TV in K-Mart for $175! There was a HDTV for that same amount. Why? Well, see what you pay for in a CRT here:

The CRT disposal fee, maybe $50. The toxic e-waste recycling fees, another $50, perhaps, and the shipping weight from oversees. What you really get is the same damn TV that sells for $50 in Thailand and both end up in a Bangladesh poisoned landfill. We "pretend" to recycle CRTs and e-waste and pay the cost to just go where the other countries go with them, the lowest bidder that will take it. But the fees make us feel good about ourselves. So LCDs have less poison, and they are encouraging you to change over.

I hate cup holders, posted on September 8, 2009 at 18:23:01
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com Audiophile Posts: 3040 Location: Atlanta Joined: December 15, 2003	does anyone make a car that does not have cup holders?

Yeah, I don't get it. Plasma is better than LCD and therefore..., posted on September 7, 2009 at 20:41:32
The Real Dick Hertz	...a better alternative to a 200lb chunk of glass CRT. I was damned lucky to sell my 34" Sony CRT. Now, I'm not sure even the Goodwill would take one off your hands.

Plasma looks better, posted on September 7, 2009 at 20:42:32
Bill the K Audiophile Posts: 8405 Joined: June 3, 2006	especially for watching sports.But now I wonder why Sony has stopped Plasma and now have only LCD. I have a feeling the future belongs to LED.

RE: Get over it. The CRT is going the way of the DoDo bird., posted on September 8, 2009 at 07:28:05
setlow Audiophile Posts: 267 Location: Ontario, Canada Joined: June 1, 2000	I have a Toshiba LCD, one advantage for LCD is there is no reflection from the screen. Sony never did make plasma their early ones were made by some other company, I am not sure but I think it was Samsung. Bob

I have two CRT's., posted on September 8, 2009 at 08:20:27
howard Audiophile Posts: 2954 Location: No. California Joined: December 31, 1999	One checks in@265lbs and the other@350(I moved both to new locations within an hour). When they break(the smaller of the two's screen is doing the "Jitterbug"), I'm going to Samsung's ultra slim LED's.

That's good advice., posted on September 7, 2009 at 20:47:18
Wendell Narrod	Look for a used CRT. I wouldn't do it. But if that is what someone wants it is the way to go.

RE: Yeah, I don't get it. Plasma is better than LCD and therefore..., posted on September 8, 2009 at 05:09:50
oldcrow Audiophile Posts: 299 Location: TN Joined: December 3, 2003	I sold my 12 year old 36" via craigs list to a couple of college students who live in a dorm. It has had little use for in the past 5 years, and was in good shape. I sold it for $10. Had it gone out it would have cost me money to get rid of it. It was to heavy for me to move.

RE: Plasma looks better, posted on September 7, 2009 at 21:00:07
junvel Audiophile Posts: 126 Location: so.California Joined: August 23, 2003	LCD is much cheaper to make than plasma.

RE: Plasma looks better, posted on September 7, 2009 at 21:58:03
Steve Eddy	especially for watching sports.But now I wonder why Sony has stopped Plasma and now have only LCD. Because plasma TVs aren't "green" enough with regard to energy efficiency and are being targeted along with such things as incandescent light bulbs. Sony probably decided to cut their losses and get out now. se

RE: Plasma looks better, posted on September 8, 2009 at 11:16:05
Jack G Audiophile Posts: 9741 Joined: September 24, 1999	Sony plasmas were not competitively priced. Then they went to LCOS, which at the time was better than plasma, but they lost their shirts on that one. Now they are doing LCD, figuring if they hype it enough, people will think its good. LCD is cheap to make, and most people can't tell the difference. Jack

RE: Plasma looks better, posted on September 8, 2009 at 01:41:59

chris.redmond2@bushinternet.com
Reviewer

Posts: 10307
Location: Lancashire.
Joined: January 21, 2001

Yep, and plasma typically started at 42" while LCD ruled below this.

Now we're told that LCD quality has improved to the quality of plasma, which is only correct if you have the best LCD and a crappy plasma.

As with audio however, once a certain quality is reached people are more than happy so premium products at a premium price struggle to find a market. Doubt we'll see any other plasma or any LCD to match the picture of Pioneer's Kuro's which have now been discontinued.

Today is a gift - that's why it's called the Present.

Best Regards,
Chris Redmond.

RE: Plasma looks better, posted on September 8, 2009 at 03:33:57
audioAl Audiophile Posts: 1462 Location: So. Texas Joined: December 16, 2007	I've got an audio bud who owns a Kuros, it was hard to calibrate. LED may be the future, hope it helps drop the price of LCD's. Vista Ultimate 64 bit/e5300 Intel 45nm cpu/ASRock G41M-LE/Asus Xonar DS R 7.1/YamahaRX-V465 HT receiver/ Infinity RS1001 & Cambridge SoundWorks speakers/Yamaha YST-SW216 subwolf

Check out the Panasonic Premiere Series ...., posted on September 8, 2009 at 10:33:43

reelsmith.
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Posts: 13159
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Contributor
Since: January 19, 2010

Kuros were based on Panasonic glass. The Premier series betters the Kuros, to my eyes. As for LCD ...yuck.

reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.

Panasonic Premier

LED question?, posted on September 8, 2009 at 08:16:46
Wendell Narrod	Aren't current LED models only using LEDs for backlighting the screen? The only LED display I know of is the OLED by Sony which is small and expensive. Clarification?

LED TV False advertising, posted on September 8, 2009 at 14:26:30

budm
Audiophile

Posts: 556
Location: No.cal
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Samsung LED TV ads called 'misleading' by U.K. authority.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10332988-1.html

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10332988-1.html

RE: Plasma looks better, posted on September 8, 2009 at 09:49:34
chris.redmond2@bushinternet.com Reviewer Posts: 10307 Location: Lancashire. Joined: January 21, 2001	I've got a Kuro which isn't professionally calibrated but has been adjusted to settings recommended by a pro and the picture is fantastic. Today is a gift - that's why it's called the Present. Best Regards, Chris Redmond.

I completely agree with your assessment of ..., posted on September 8, 2009 at 08:36:28

Mike K
Audiophile

Posts: 13981
Location: 97701
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tv programming and its near complete unwatchability. So I watch only
a movie on TCM now and then, and of course football. However ... the
NFL is becoming unwatchable because of the constant commercials;
college football is not nearly so commercial-filled.

We have to remember: tv, radio, newspapers, magazines are sales
media first and foremost. Their supposed use or mission to
convey information or entertainment is but a thin veneer for their
real purpose. A good radio/tv personality MUST be able to sell
product or away he/she goes.

Mike

Lack of skill dictates economy of style. - Joey Ramone

Not really pertinent to the OP's question, is it?, posted on September 8, 2009 at 08:42:32
Wendell Narrod	He's asking about a given technology and not about the value of television. If you don't like it, don't watch it.

RE: Who would waste money on a new "Television" ? A completely dead medium !, posted on September 8, 2009 at 08:54:02
no1maestro Audiophile Posts: 762 Location: midwest Joined: December 2, 2004	Bambi, I couldn't agree with you more on your assessment of Fox. It just doesn't get any worse. I bought the last Sony Wega large screen CRT and will live with it's fine picture but will use it for my library of concerts, special programs and my own personal concerts. Regular programming sucks as we all know. I'm with you!!

There's incredible stuff on the new, over the air digital channels, posted on September 8, 2009 at 09:57:58
keith_d Audiophile Posts: 9057 Joined: June 15, 2002	It's mind boggling. All the science and arts and independent media shows on the public stations, and one time out of 40 ThisTV has a great old Ken Loach film or something. I also liked Sarah Connor Chronicles...but no one else did => terminate....

Before CNN replaced the 'O'Briens' it was a decent source for real news in the morning., posted on September 8, 2009 at 12:33:36

powermatic
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Posts: 5843
Location: central oregon
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Now it's no better than GMA or similar-soft human-interest stories predominate, with lots of phony-ass banter between the news readers. Frankly, if it weren't for college football, F1 and MotoGP, the thing would be used exclusively for movie rentals. Any programs worth watching (HBO, Showtime, 'Breaking Bad', etc.) are all available on rental DVDs. Seriously, who watches a program like 'Two And A Half Men'?

"dammit"

The economy is propped up by advertising..., posted on September 8, 2009 at 15:53:30

Paul_A
Audiophile

Posts: 2553
Location: New York City
Joined: April 3, 2000

...and TV is the primary vehicle of advertising, therefore...

But the really interesting question is what form society will take after mass consumerism has run its course. It's proven to be a failure, but what a spectacular failure it has been: melting the polar ice caps, driving most species to extinction; Famine! Floods! and all for an SUV, a VCR, and night on the town. So what's next? I'm expecting scattered hunter-gatherer societies with a deeply unenlightened outlook, even though there are more worthwhile possibilities. But how does one fight for them?

Oh yeah, LEDs really suck.

It's good to hear ..., posted on September 9, 2009 at 01:06:43

Bhasi
Audiophile

Posts: 790
Joined: July 9, 2001

... there is some embarrassment at Fox News and CNN, though. I like to tune in in hotels when I can just to see if they're really as I remember them. Living on the other side of the pond, we've still thankfully got Channel 4 News but BBC TV News is rapidly dumbing down.

Although I agree TV is generally a dire medium, certainly in the countries I know at all, every so often something as brilliant as Mad Men comes along to confound one's pessimism.

You've still got to watch the box, though, if you want to be a part of society, don't you think?

I do too! I love my Samsung LCD with 120hz refresh, posted on September 8, 2009 at 13:10:12

JoshT
Audiophile

Posts: 6622
Location: Eastern Massachusetts
Joined: July 4, 2000

Maybe I'm blind. Or maybe it's because I went from a 32 inch SD Sony Wega to the latest (as of a year ago) 52 inch Samsung 1080p LCD with the 120hz refresh rate. But I LOVE it. The only thing that does not look great are SD TV broadcasts, but for the most part my Comcast Cable service has HD versions of every channel (which seem to handle SD broadcasts pretty well). The 720p cable broadcasts, and the regular DVDs look phenomenal to my eyes. I don't have Bluray yet, so I've never seen 1080p on it.

I had the TV installed by Spearit Sound in Boston, which did not sell me the TV (they said I would get a better price buying from a big box store, so I picked BestBuy). The installer, David Nakayama (whom I recommend whole heartedly), and his colleagues, were urging me to get a Panasonic Plasma and were recommending against an LCD. But part of the deal with my (S. Korean) wife is that we would get a Samsung, and they are better known these days for their LCD screens.

After installing it, and after some initial calibration, David couldn't take his eyes off of the thing and kept saying he thought it looked as good or better than his recent plasma purchase. I was genuinely surprised.

Who knows? I find the color convincing and natural and the detail fantastic. My big fear was motion blur during live sports broadcasts, which I can clearly see on the older 60hz refresh rate LCD models, but I hardly ever notice it on this set.

It's lightweight, runs cool, looks beautiful, and is quite energy efficient.

I don't miss the CRT and don't regret getting an LCD.

Edit: Mine has flourescent backlighting, and I suppose the blacks are not quite real because if the cable box is off but the TV still on, it has a slight grayish color that goes away when the TV is turned off. But while actually watching content, the blacks look totally convincing to me. I will not upgrade unless (1) the thing breaks down out of warranty or (2) my wife and I move and the buyer wants to keep the TV (it is nicely installed on a wall).
___
"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."

Samsung do them, posted on September 8, 2009 at 08:27:33

cawson@onetel.com
Audiophile

Posts: 2389
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I've not yet investigated flat-screen TVs, but will have to soon as I'm moving to a new home where my huge CRT TVs will look totally out of place.

I made a preliminary investigation recently and was told that LED was the latest technology and better than LCD and plasma for most purposes. In particular, LED TVs are very slim.

John Lewis, one of the largest and most respected chains of department stores in UK lists 7 LED TVs from 32-55" plus 39 LCD ones and 17 Plasma.

I don't know who else does them, but Samsung and Sharp certainly do.

Peter

Samsung LED TVs

Yes, posted on September 8, 2009 at 10:04:20

Larry I
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Posts: 2229
Location: No. Va.
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The LEDs provide the backlighting while the LCDs act to selectively block transmission of that backlighting.

However, with the more advanced sets, the LED lighting is of the "locally dimming" variety. With local dimming, there are multiple LEDs acting as the source of lighting. The LEDs are selectively turned on and off to match the differing brightness level of different parts of the screen at any given moment. If an area of the screen is supposed to be totally black, the LEDs in that area are not turned on at all.

I've seen both the top of the line Sony and Samsung sets with locally dimming LEDs and the black levels and overall image quality is quite impressive. Compared to the Pioneer Kuro Plasma sets, there are a few more motion artifacts, not quite as accurate colors, and a narrower viewing angle, but, the image quality is MUCH better than prior LCD sets. I would take either of these sets over any current plasma set except the latest Kuro model.

It is unfortunate that the whole Pioneer line of plasmas are a thing of the past and the promised development of even more efficient plasmas with deeper black levels is now doubtful.

RE: Samsung do them, posted on September 8, 2009 at 08:29:24

Wendell Narrod

Every Samsung I've read about uses LED backlighting but not for the display.
Can you point me to a model that utilizes and LED display.

EDIT:

I did another search and can still find no set, other than Sony's OLED that utilizes LED display technology. The Samsungs use LED for backlighting. They still use LCD display technology.

Samsung should be chagred for fasle advertising, posted on September 8, 2009 at 14:21:58
budm Audiophile Posts: 556 Location: No.cal Joined: August 7, 2003	They are ALL LED back light, it is still LCD panel, if it is real LED panel then why would you need LEDs for back lighting?

RE: Samsung do them, posted on September 8, 2009 at 11:45:07

cawson@onetel.com
Audiophile

Posts: 2389
Joined: September 27, 2004

Try the John Lewis site below. They categorise screen types but not all LED screens are LED Backlighting, so presumably some are "proper" LED.

Maybe you can work out what is what!

Peter

TVs from John Lewis

A point of (slight) disagreement..., posted on September 8, 2009 at 11:07:55

Jim Austin

>>We have to remember: tv, radio, newspapers, magazines are sales
media first and foremost. Their supposed use or mission to
convey information or entertainment is but a thin veneer for their
real purpose. <<

In fact, for decades it was a decent content model: Free access to programming in return for viewing advertising. And it remains, in principle at least, a decent idea. You don't need to love television programming to agree that (eg) network news has had some great moments. That's free, ad-supported content protected by well-established (and in many media, still existing) editorial standards (specifically, a clear divide between editorial control and business interests). Of course that only ever applied to news; entertainment programming of decent quality has always relied for its existence on occasional high-minded producers and executives.

But my point is that your characterization, while it may describe the prevailing situation fairly well, is a little too cynical historically. Organizations with sound principles can still create principled content. It doesn't happen as often as I'd like, but it happens.

That said, I too find television nearly unwatchable. I despise commercials, which means that model I just defended works poorly for me. I often start watching something I'm interested in, turn the channel when a commercial comes on, then fail to find my way back to the show. The result: I just sit there flipping channels until I'm stupid.

Jim

RE: I completely agree with your assessment of ..., posted on September 8, 2009 at 13:46:50

acres verde
Audiophile

Posts: 725
Location: Big Easy
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I don't know. The endless blather of, minimally, three analysts, color guys, etc. is driving me to distraction. Throw in the pretty blond roaming the sidelines for the odd timely human interest angle and it seems that the games themselves have become secondary.

Think I'm overreacting?. Do yourself a favor and checkout the occassional replay of a game from the '70s or '80s on ESPN classic and drink in the momentary lapses of silence and the actual relevance to the action on the field of the commentary. It complements the action and is so much mor a "...just the facts, ma'am..." style of delivery instead of the endless filibuster of speculation, pointless anecdotes and general narcissism that rides herd on us now.

Thanks, I feel a little better now.

RE: In reality I think it was right on the money, posted on September 8, 2009 at 09:47:13
jtkarma Audiophile Posts: 801 Joined: June 22, 2007	And a great read as well.

So what? Its a decent comment; don't like, don't read., posted on September 8, 2009 at 10:48:26
free.ranger Audiophile Posts: 16964 Location: Santa Fe, NM Joined: April 8, 2004 Contributor Since: January 7, 2005	Quit being the PC cop of postings.

You're missing an important point, posted on September 8, 2009 at 11:11:55

Jim Austin

There are a few places you can turn on the Internet to read interesting ideas expressed well by smart, regular people. AA is one of them (even if you have to tolerate a lot of bullshit to find it). Bambi B is one of the few who, if you could "follow" AA members like you do on Twitter, I would follow. The art, the extraordinary knowledge of ARC gear, readily shared--reading these posts is a privilege.

Jim

Really?, posted on September 8, 2009 at 09:48:54
Wendell Narrod	Relate it to the OPs request for information.

RE: Yes, posted on September 8, 2009 at 10:08:48
Wendell Narrod	I know. I suspect people are confusing backlighting technology with display technology. It's understandable. They market them as as LED televisions. They didn't market the original LCD flat panels as flourescent TVs. OLED is a truly exciting display technology if Sony can get the prices down and market larger displays. It is a true breakthrough.

RE: Yes, posted on September 8, 2009 at 10:21:36
Larry I Audiophile Posts: 2229 Location: No. Va. Joined: June 28, 2000	The trouble with Sony is that they have been batting near .000 in the last decade or so when it comes to bringing out a new technology/product, supporting the technology, and providing customer support. I have learned this the hard way. I would wait quite a while and NOT be an early adopter, particularly since there are still some issues regarding the life expectancy of the blue OLEDs.

Good advice., posted on September 8, 2009 at 10:32:17

Wendell Narrod

My days of early adoption are over. My three HD sets are 1080i and I won't upgrade to 1080p until each needs to be replaced. I didn't buy a BluRay player until I could get a floor model for under $100 and I don't own a single disc. I rent them from Netflix.

Sony has has a checkered past as you mention. They effectively killed SACD as a medium and I'm still not convinced BluRay will not be replaced my something else. They are technological geniuses and business morons.

RE: Check out the Panasonic Premiere Series ...., posted on September 8, 2009 at 12:23:24

chris.redmond2@bushinternet.com
Reviewer

Posts: 10307
Location: Lancashire.
Joined: January 21, 2001

Hmmm. From what I recall, Pioneer made their own glass but are now going to outsource to Panasonic; from what I've heard, Pioneer's own glass was better quality than Panasonic.

From one of the reviews you linked to "However, it's also one of the best-performing televisions we've ever reviewed, delivering a picture that approaches that of the current picture quality champion, Pioneer's Kuro Elite."

So even the reviewer concededs that the Kuro was/is the best and the Panny doesn't quite get there. :0)

Today is a gift - that's why it's called the Present.

Best Regards,
Chris Redmond.

RE: So what? Its a decent comment; don't like, don't read., posted on September 8, 2009 at 12:47:59

Wendell Narrod

PC cop? Really? I suggest you not read my posts. I apologize for my shortcomings.

RE: A point of (slight) disagreement..., posted on September 8, 2009 at 12:43:48
Dawnrazor Audiophile Posts: 12614 Location: N. California Joined: April 9, 2004	Hey Jim, WHy not just record shows and skip through the commercials? While some shows are now putting the adds in the show, you can skip most if not all the commercials. But the point is well taken that content pretty much blows...except for niche stations. Cut to razor sounding violins

RE: You're missing an important point, posted on September 8, 2009 at 12:59:01
Wendell Narrod	I don't have a problem with the content. I just didn't see how it responded to the OP's question. I apologize for offending anyone.

Thanks for the link., posted on September 8, 2009 at 13:09:28
Wendell Narrod	", Samsung pointed out that LED backlighting provides improved energy efficiency, higher contrast ratios and slimmer designs. Samsung also noted that it has a line of LED-backlit LCD TVs that are less than an inch thick. Samsung stressed that the slim down of its LCD TVs has been enabled by LED backlighting technology." I found nothing that mentioned LED display.

The problem is not your TV., posted on September 8, 2009 at 14:36:54
The Real Dick Hertz	It's Time Warner. I suffered their crappy service and breakdown prone cable boxes for about a year after I got a high def TV. When I switched to an HDMI capable box that's when I really began to have trouble. Finally gave TW the heave ho and went with Direct TV. There's no comparison.

Maybe ..., posted on September 8, 2009 at 12:35:04
reelsmith. Audiophile Posts: 13159 Location: CT Joined: June 7, 2005 Contributor Since: January 19, 2010	I guess it's all a matter of opinion. Panasonic has been providing the glass for Pioneer since about July of '08. reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.

"Seriously, who watches a program like 'Two And A Half Men'?", posted on September 8, 2009 at 13:01:43
Wendell Narrod	I do. I think it is very funny.

Habit I guess, posted on September 8, 2009 at 13:26:59
Jim Austin	I guess I'm just an old-school TV guy. I've got one of those DVR boxes, and I use it to record shows--sometimes. But sometimes I still just feel like seeing what's on TV. That's when I get into trouble. So it's not logical. I should just record my favorite shows and watch 'em later. Maybe I'll try to do that more. But old habits are hard to break. Best, Jim

No offense taken, posted on September 8, 2009 at 13:25:09
Jim Austin	I'm just sayin'...

Pssst. Wendell. It's JoshT over here., posted on September 8, 2009 at 13:25:15

JoshT
Audiophile

Posts: 6622
Location: Eastern Massachusetts
Joined: July 4, 2000

Just between you and me, I agree with you. Shhhhhh. :-)

(The post is interesting, but it certainly had me scratching my noggin a bit as a response to whether anyone still makes CRT!)
___
"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."

You've got the courage of your convictions. For myself, staring blankly off into space for 30 minutes, posted on September 8, 2009 at 13:16:11
powermatic Audiophile Posts: 5843 Location: central oregon Joined: November 24, 2005	would be time better spent. "dammit"

RE: "Seriously, who watches a program like 'Two And A Half Men'?", posted on September 8, 2009 at 14:53:04
geoffkait	it's a funny show. powermatic could use a little humor.

Me too., posted on September 8, 2009 at 16:52:57
Dave Pogue Audiophile Posts: 11689 Location: DC Area Joined: October 9, 2001	Though I'm amazed I'm admitting that in public.

RE: Thanks for the link., posted on September 8, 2009 at 13:45:54

cawson@onetel.com
Audiophile

Posts: 2389
Joined: September 27, 2004

You say "I found nothing that mentioned LED display."

Is this relevent? The early postings were comparing LCD with Plasma. If Samsung and others can substantially improve on these technologies and call their TVs "LED" because they include LEDs, what's to complain at? Even if they have LCDs as well as LEDs, the point is that brighter, clearer images can be delivered on a thinner screen. Surely that's good?

Peter

RE: I do too! I love my Samsung LCD with 120hz refresh, posted on September 8, 2009 at 17:01:32

Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 12614
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004

Jt I own that same set probably...a 52" Samsung LCD with 120hz refresh rate.

Anyhow I recently bought the ISF calibration disk for $29 and did the calibration on the disk.

My wife freaked at first because it looked so different and she hates change. I told her to suck it up for a week and we could change it back if need be.

After about 4-5 days she said how much better it looked and noticed particularly how SD content was improved.

So I don't know what kind of calibration was done, but for $30 you might want to buy the disk and run through its calibration if you are having problems with sd content. Could be your cables systems sd broadcasts, but it couldn't hurt to recalibrate it an see.

Cut to razor sounding violins

I'm just a simple guy and enjoy comedy., posted on September 8, 2009 at 13:18:01
Wendell Narrod	I'm ok with staring off into space, on occasion, as well.

RE: Pssst. Wendell. It's JoshT over here., posted on September 8, 2009 at 13:28:45
Wendell Narrod	Thanks Josh. I didn't think I was arguing for political correctness but I sure offended some. It wasn't my intention.

RE: Habit I guess, posted on September 8, 2009 at 14:09:37

Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 12614
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004

Ok I get it. The good old days. Remember when you could flip the channels at the top of the hour to find a show and still catch the beginning of TBS that started at 5 minutes after the hour?

Most every dvr records live tv as its playing so you can pause it, rewind, etc.

Next time you just turn on the tv to watch a show, try pressing pause.

Then go do some review stuff (like how about the Cary caa1 amp I am interested in no reviews on it) or place a phone call or fix some dinner.

If you can kill about 10-15 minutes you can just start watching and skip through all the commercials pretty much right up until the end.

But if you flip the channel you are screwed as the recorded part is erased, and the new channel is recorded.

Cut to razor sounding violins

It's all very good. It's a significant improvement., posted on September 8, 2009 at 13:51:24

Wendell Narrod

It provides a better viewing experience and is good for the environment. I've been very impressed with the ones I've seen. If I were in the market and could not afford a plasma large enough it would be my choice. My primary set is 65" and, we all know, we don't go smaller when we upgrade.:-)

It's simply not a revolutionary technology change that organic light emitting diode technology can potentially offer.

Do what I do., posted on September 8, 2009 at 13:55:03
Wendell Narrod	Turn the sound off. I know the game and understand the rules. I don't need them to tell me what I can see for myself.

RE: Do what I do., posted on September 9, 2009 at 11:31:04

audioAl
Audiophile

Posts: 1462
Location: So. Texas
Joined: December 16, 2007

Wendall, not to intrude, but, I watch SPORTS with the SACD player on. Usually Rock & Roll, classical won't work well, I don't think. Progressive Jazz does though! Dave Matthews rules the NFL!! Cheers! Alan in Sunny Seadrift
Vista Ultimate 64 bit/e5300 Intel 45nm cpu/ASRock G41M-LE/Asus Xonar DS R 7.1/YamahaRX-V465 HT receiver/ Infinity RS1001 & Cambridge SoundWorks speakers/Yamaha YST-SW216 subwolf

Good suggestion, posted on September 8, 2009 at 14:12:48
Jim Austin	Of course I could also just hit the record button, then go ahead and flip through channels. It's hard to be smart when the goal is mindlessness. But I'll give it another try. Best, Jim

RE: The problem is not your TV., posted on September 9, 2009 at 02:48:44
audioAl Audiophile Posts: 1462 Location: So. Texas Joined: December 16, 2007	Yes Direct TV is good, but darn expensive, $70.00 plus dollars for standard def, I recently switched to Dish Network and got two HD receivers for $41.00 for the first year, $56.00 thereafter. Turbo-HD Rules! Vista Ultimate 64 bit/e5300 Intel 45nm cpu/ASRock G41M-LE/Asus Xonar DS R 7.1/YamahaRX-V465 HT receiver/ Infinity RS1001 & Cambridge SoundWorks speakers/Yamaha YST-SW216 subwolf

RE: The problem is not your TV., posted on September 9, 2009 at 17:17:04
mauimusicman	Sounds like it's time for a switch then. Only problem is here in Hawaii we get west coast feeds, so all the programming moves 3 hours earlier. Thanks for the info.

If "funny" means the most patently obvious sex-related "jokes", posted on September 8, 2009 at 15:35:28

powermatic
Audiophile

Posts: 5843
Location: central oregon
Joined: November 24, 2005

humanly possibly, yeah, it's a damn laff riot.

TV long ago left the comparatively subtle world of sexual innuendo or double entendre-much less nuance-long, long ago. Remember when 'Married With Children' seemed risque? As stupid as that program was, in retrospect it seems like a gently subtle send-up of suburban life. Now it's more or less a constant string of 'I'm soaking wet', 'yeah, that's what she said' add-laugh-track "humor". I'd call it sophomoric, but I wouldn't want to insult second-year college students. Or second year high school students. Or second year grade school students.

Go nuts if you think it's so hilarious. And I'll admit, I never watch it, so maybe I missed all those really, really funny episodes.

"dammit"

I wonder if men who watch that program aren't, posted on September 8, 2009 at 18:31:37
keith_d Audiophile Posts: 9057 Joined: June 15, 2002	Just dreaming of a bevy of hookers...by association.

RE: Ok, now would you tell us why?, posted on September 8, 2009 at 21:26:08
Perfume	For one thing the color of skin tone. never looks real like with an old sony xbr set. The best picture I ever seen was with a sony HD crt in 2005 in japan with analog satellite single. Nothing ever came close since. The best blacks, depth, color , sharpness that did not look like cut outs.

RE: If "funny" means the most patently obvious sex-related "jokes", posted on September 8, 2009 at 15:45:36

Wendell Narrod

Lighten up. It's just TV. Watch what you like and ignore what you don't or don't watch it at all. I don't know if I'm the college sophmore, the high school sophmore or the second grader. My wife might say they all give me too much credit. :-)

RE: It's just TV, posted on September 8, 2009 at 15:57:48

powermatic
Audiophile

Posts: 5843
Location: central oregon
Joined: November 24, 2005

Well said. Hardly worth an argument, but I generally feel the responsibility to reply to GK in a manner worthy of his post.

BTW, I agree that the entire subject is off topic as per the OP-should have mentioned that somewhere in my Scathing Diatribe vis-a'-vis Charlie Sheen-oriented tv sitcoms. Hopefully the OP got the info he was looking for, though he seems to have left the building.

vaya con dios.

"dammit"

RE: It's just TV, posted on September 8, 2009 at 18:19:41
geoffkait	I am touched you would bother to respond. My suggestion is watch more comedy, it's the best medicine. LOL

RE: Me too., posted on September 8, 2009 at 16:54:04
Wendell Narrod	I like what I like. It makes no difference what someone else thinks. :-)

Thanks for the tip!, posted on September 8, 2009 at 19:11:42

JoshT
Audiophile

Posts: 6622
Location: Eastern Massachusetts
Joined: July 4, 2000

I did have it professionally calibrated after the initial set up, and I think I had the same reaction as your wife. "Why did I pay for THAT when it looked so good to begin with?" But the changes grew on me too.

I might try that disc, though, given the price and just the fact that I'd likely learn more about the TV by playing around with it myself.
___
"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."

I hate cell phones..., posted on September 8, 2009 at 21:06:42
Neil49 Audiophile Posts: 8850 Location: Northern Virginia Joined: June 13, 2003	please kill me if I ever become a cell phone zombie.

"Just dreaming of a bevy of hookers...by association. ", posted on September 8, 2009 at 18:56:31
Wendell Narrod	And, your point....:-)

My point is: I'd be very surprised if I were to find that program funny or entertaining, posted on September 9, 2009 at 06:34:17
keith_d Audiophile Posts: 9057 Joined: June 15, 2002	And here I thought this David Pogue fellow was all sophisticated and whatnot.... ; >

I think mine is in the car., posted on September 9, 2009 at 05:59:57
Dave Pogue Audiophile Posts: 11689 Location: DC Area Joined: October 9, 2001	At least that's where I saw it last.

I keep my cell phone in my cup holder when I'm in my car /nt, posted on September 9, 2009 at 16:54:02
hermanesque	nt

RE: My point is: I'd be very surprised if I were to find that program funny or entertaining, posted on September 9, 2009 at 18:34:44
Dave Pogue Audiophile Posts: 11689 Location: DC Area Joined: October 9, 2001	You have me confused with that New York Times guy. Relieved?

You not only listen to Gallo..., posted on September 9, 2009 at 19:14:46
keith_d Audiophile Posts: 9057 Joined: June 15, 2002	...You apparently drink the stuff.

RE: Check out the Pioneer krp-500m plasma....., posted on September 10, 2009 at 14:58:53
HiFiSoundGuy Audiophile Posts: 305 Joined: August 5, 2006	This plasma was their last and has their 10thG PARTS inside this plasma and is their best that they have ever made !....your have to wait until they come out with a 50" OLED to better it....!

Well, we all knew that one was coming, huh?! ;-), posted on September 12, 2009 at 19:16:42
Raiderman Audiophile Posts: 2129 Location: Silicon Valley, California Joined: March 14, 2003

I only hate cell phones glued to the driver in front of /next to me's ear.... nt, posted on September 14, 2009 at 12:23:40
oscar Audiophile Posts: 19522 Location: Fort Worth, TX Joined: October 25, 2000	.

Are you still using a CRT monitor?, posted on October 4, 2009 at 12:12:50
ppopp Audiophile Posts: 2996 Location: OR Joined: October 10, 2002	Say it ain't so. I don't believe you'e seen a good (Sony/Mits) LCD TV properly set-up. LCDs look pretty unremarkable in stores because they aren't set-up right. They aren't set-up right in most people's homes too.

You aren't alone., posted on November 9, 2009 at 21:58:20
Jack Seaton Audiophile Posts: 15756 Location: Spokane, Washington Joined: October 1, 2004	It's one of those shows that you can guess the entire plot within the first 30 seconds. And I agree, the sex "jokes" are a bit sophomoric. We really need another good prime time comedy show.

Video Asylum

I hate lcd TV's

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