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Help me choose a tv?

98.68.178.14
Posted on July 8, 2013 at 15:08:32
CarlEber
Audiophile

Posts: 201
Joined: July 18, 2001
 Hello, here's what I'm doing. I want a 46 inch size. I don't want or care about 3D, and can take or leave "smart tv". Please help me decide, or make suggestions. I don't really want a plasma tv, but I know they can achieve better blacks. I mostly watch satellite 1080i tv, but I do have a growing collection of blu rays and a slightly old Sony player. I don't play any video games.

I consider myself quite critical of video quality, but not willing to spend thousands right now. I had a Panasonic front projector onto a Da-Lite 130 inch screen for years, but sold the projector...and am not willing to spend what it would take to have a nice front projector again just yet.

Right now I am on a budget.

I recently bought a Samsung LED tv, but plan to send it back. It's a UN40EH5000. It has a problem with purple/pink halos around dark objects in motion. Other than this it looks fine. I tweaked the white balance to my liking, and I do like the color palette a lot. There don't seem to be any other obvious motion artifacts other than the above. As long as things are bright, the motion looks decent and at least detailed enough. But I just can't live with the pink halos. The black level can go dark as long as the backlight is below 50% in a dark room, but certainly I know it lacks the shadow detail of the best TV's. I do notice that everything turns blue-ish as it gets dark, which I had read in a pro review before buying the tv. Kind of annoying, but nothing like as bad as the pink halo.

I found a thread, I think at avs forum, which described the halo problem. No reasons were given other than "the panel is defective". In my opinion, it's possibly just meant to be this way, because it's not noticeable other than when dark objects are in motion (such as with most any tv drama or action show, or movie, where the obligatory technique used is of everything being shot in shadow and backlit...with lots of people who have black hair and dark clothes, etc). The discussion mentioned that this is probably a Sharp panel, but in a Samsung tv...and that the Samsung panel is better.

I've decided I don't care, and want to try something else. I want a 46 inch size, and will not be trying my luck with the 5000 series of any size anymore. So far the only tv I've seen in a store that I really liked, was way above what I'm wanting to pay. At around $1200, the Samsung UN46ES7100 looked fantastic. Of course it is a 3D with all the bells and whistles, and a waste of money in my opinion.

So I think I am beginning to narrow it down to maybe only two choices. LG 47LN5400, or Samsung UN46F6300. It's possible that this Samsung's LED lighting technique is inferior to the LG...I'm not sure just yet. I have not seen them side by side.

Do any of you have an opinion on these two, or could you suggest something that might be better for similar money? The Samsung is currently $749, the LG is $599. The Samsung is a "smart tv", the LG is not. I don't currently use Netflix or anything else on the net, and my dvr can browse youtube...so I don't see a smart tv as a necessity, but in the future it might be nice. And certainly it might help the resale value, or at least the ability to resell the tv a few years down the line.

Thanks for any help you all could provide! Carl

 

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"I don't really want a plasma tv", posted on July 8, 2013 at 19:27:35
oldmkvi
Audiophile

Posts: 10606
Joined: April 12, 2002
 Why? I wouldn't have anything else.

 

RE: Help me choose a tv?, posted on July 9, 2013 at 09:47:44
Hornlover
Manufacturer

Posts: 2529
Joined: March 8, 2002
 "I consider myself quite critical of video quality"...

If that is true, you should be looking at a plasma. Dont listen to the salesman at the store (they probably know nothing anyway). Find a Panasonic plasma in your price range, and I promise you will never regret it. Take it home, calibrate the picture (you can often find the settings on the net if you google them), and put on a good disk. Then you will know what I mean.

 

Agreed! I use the Cinema setting. I had it "Calibrated" by someone from Magnolia, posted on July 9, 2013 at 10:59:19
oldmkvi
Audiophile

Posts: 10606
Joined: April 12, 2002
 went back to Cinema, with a couple of slight tweaks in the Menu.
Skin Tones were too Red with the Calibration. He even used a Cameras and Laptop.
I thought it was Bogus!
I will Google the settings, as you suggested.
Also, no heat problem at all.

 

+ 1 (or is it 2?) for Panny Plasma ^, posted on July 9, 2013 at 11:57:39
Road Warrior
Audiophile

Posts: 21656
Location: Dallas
Joined: August 31, 2004
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"E Burres Stigano?"


 

(or is it 2?) Yep! I'm In! nt, posted on July 9, 2013 at 14:26:17
oldmkvi
Audiophile

Posts: 10606
Joined: April 12, 2002
 /

 

RE: Help me choose a tv?, posted on July 10, 2013 at 05:21:24
three_sox
 Get the one that looks the best to you.

You have seen a TV that you say "the Samsung UN46ES7100 looked fantastic" and you are still wondering what to buy?

Buy the one that looks the best to you.

I'd buy a Panasonic plasma, but that is me.

Worrying about $400-$500 difference on a TV is really peanuts when you amortise the cost over, say 5 years.

Good luck.



 

+3! And good advice! nt, posted on July 10, 2013 at 07:20:12
oldmkvi
Audiophile

Posts: 10606
Joined: April 12, 2002
 /

 

RE: "I don't really want a plasma tv", posted on July 10, 2013 at 10:42:59
CarlEber
Audiophile

Posts: 201
Joined: July 18, 2001
 Thanks for all the responses...however, no real help so far.

Why not a plasma? Well, because of issues of burn-in, and pixels blowing out over time (sometimes a very short time). These have always been issues with plasma TV's, have they not? If these are no longer issues anymore, I ask why not? Is there some magic new way that plasmas are made, that got invented since 2010?

I already said I know the overall picture quality, and especially the black level, are superior with a plasma tv. But I also said I did not want one, and asked specifically for help with what I do want. I guess that's asking for too much.

To me right now, paying $500 more IS actually a big deal. Money is an issue. I don't have $5,000 of disposable income per month like many of you...

How much could I resell that $1200 tv that I liked for, say in just 2 years, let alone 5? The answer is about $400 max in 2 years, and $250 in 5 years. That's quite a percentage loss. I've already lost many, many, many times this in the stock market...and am not willing to spend more money than I absolutely have to, and also not willing to lose any more money than I have to.

If I had a high degree of income, well I would just buy everything I saw, that I liked. I would have a 4k tv in every room of my mansion, and about $500k worth of highend audio bling in each of those rooms also.

At this point though, I would have to strike enough oil to sell a few hundred barrels a day to support such gluttony, and it's just not happened yet.

Perhaps since $500 is nothing to all of you, you would like to take up a collection for me?

 

RE: "I don't really want a plasma tv", posted on July 10, 2013 at 14:55:16
Hornlover
Manufacturer

Posts: 2529
Joined: March 8, 2002
 Well, my first Panasonic plasma (50") is over 7 years old now, has gotten heavy use, and still looks great. No problems at all. I don't know what you mean by 'pixels blowing out'. That's a new one on me. I think the burn in thing is not the problem it was in older units either. Its only a problem if you use it for games that may have objects on screen all the time (we don't use ours for games. The kids have a LG LCD for that).

 

RE: "I don't really want a plasma tv", posted on July 10, 2013 at 15:40:14
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 Panasonic MAY or may NOT agree with you. They might....I've heard it a couple times, get OUT of the Plasma market.
Yet, I hear they are NOW selling a basically cost-no-object panel, which should equal or better the performanc of the Kuro sets from Pioneer....just a few years ago. THAN it was Pioneer that dropped out of the Plasma market.

Me? Between HUNDREDS of threads on LCD issues and the better performance of Plasma sets, I chose Plasma. I'm not planning on selling so what difference does resale make?

If money is an issue, I'd FIRST suggest downsizing your TV 'wants'. I was in a short money situation when my 60" Sony SXRD decided to pack up.....so I went with a 50" Plasma.
Too much is never enough

 

2.5 yrs and my panny pasma is going strong, strong, strong, posted on July 10, 2013 at 18:07:10
Road Warrior
Audiophile

Posts: 21656
Location: Dallas
Joined: August 31, 2004
 One would think if plasma pixels were subject to "blowing out" there'd be a brazillion posts about it over at AVS.

FTR, my Panny is a 2011, 65", base model, not one of the higher end ones. At Best Buy's site, they have a base model, 49.9" set, for $699, 1080P Plasma. Altho you weren't specific about your budget, I'm guessing this one falls in it. It's also no frills. Plus, 1080P. I'm sure you'll find a reason to snipe at this recommendation, but feel free to leave out the "blowing out of pixels" bs.

Edit - The set I referenced has a wee bit of Smarts built into it. If you want a totally dumb set, the 720p 49.9" right above it is $499.
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"E Burres Stigano?"


 

How much are you going to spend?, posted on July 10, 2013 at 18:10:49
oldmkvi
Audiophile

Posts: 10606
Joined: April 12, 2002
 Get what you want, but don't trash Plasma. As you have read, owners have nothing but good things to say.
Wait, save, maybe you can do better.

 

Great pic and Streaming, right from the TV, no external stuff needed. What's not to like?, posted on July 11, 2013 at 08:29:16
oldmkvi
Audiophile

Posts: 10606
Joined: April 12, 2002
 Everyone Except the OP is onboard!

 

RE: Great pic and Streaming, right from the TV, no external stuff needed. What's not to like?, posted on July 11, 2013 at 10:05:07
CarlEber
Audiophile

Posts: 201
Joined: July 18, 2001
 That's funny because I have read many complaints about plasma sets blowing out pixels over the years, and how warranties didn't cover it unless there were more than 10 pixels blown, even if most of them were near the center of the picture.

I am not a teenager here who is new to this. I've been around a long time.

I watch a lot of news and business news programming, and besides, plasma sets put out more heat and use more energy. I am seeing more than good enough shadow detail in this cheap 5000 series LED tv now, that to me it's not worth buying a plasma for similar money. It is not remotely warm after hours of use, either.

As for the suggestion that I should just buy a 720p set because I am on a budget...I mean get the blank over yourself! Just go watch tv or do whatever it is you do, because a comment like that is not welcome in this thread.

If I were going to just buy a dedicated movie-only set, and didn't mind burning in the middle part with the 2.35:1 material...and had no intention of ever reselling it again, and had no intention of ever replacing my front projector in my home theater at some point...then I would have a similar amount of disposable income that many of you have...and I would just blow a few grand on a 70 inch or larger plasma tv...but that's not what I want to do. As I hinted at in my initial post, I will be buying a new front projector for that use, at some point in the future, but not now.

I'm sorry if I'm not onboard all of your plasma bandwagon. I guess I will need to post on some other website to get opinions between the two sets I listed in my first post, along with what they cost (which is the implied budget)...for those of you who wouldn't even read anything other than the subject header of my first post.

Being a fanboy of something such as a plasma tv design, does not make you an expert on everything. What does it make you? Use your imagination, if you can...

Thanks for the input, but it's not helping. Rather some of it is backhandedly insulting...so I hope you enjoy some of that in return.

 

Backhanded insult taken, and, no offense taken, posted on July 11, 2013 at 13:06:36
Road Warrior
Audiophile

Posts: 21656
Location: Dallas
Joined: August 31, 2004
 Audio Video Science forum's discussion boreds will have a wealth of info for you on the sets you asked about. There'll be dedicated threads on just about any set that's marketed with input from industry professionals including recommended settings to properly dial in the set.

FTR, I think the 1080p Panny 49.9" at $699 is a killer deal. I don't know of anyone who has a burn in problem with their newer plasmas. I DO know of people who have issues with motion flicker with *very good* LCDs. If yer even remotely interested in the Panny I recommended, find the thread dedicated to it, if there's a systemic problem you can be sure it'll be mentioned. I wish my bro n law had done that basic research on the 42" Toshiba LCD he bought. He would have found out about the "clouding" issues and crappy black levels that he has.
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"E Burres Stigano?"


 

Thank you for the info!, posted on July 12, 2013 at 10:20:06
CarlEber
Audiophile

Posts: 201
Joined: July 18, 2001
 I had thought of trying AVS forum, but I'm not yet a member, so thought I would try here first.

So you're not concerned about 2.35:1 aspect material burning in that part of your set?

Interesting that you are at least getting into a more technical description. What does "clouding" look like?

 

Clouding (and btw, NOT an issue on our Sony LED), posted on July 12, 2013 at 15:10:21
Road Warrior
Audiophile

Posts: 21656
Location: Dallas
Joined: August 31, 2004
 Imagine a pristine outdoor scene, awash in sunlight, with part of the picture (in his case, the middle of the screen) clouded over. Hard to explain, Very evident tho in scenes with a lot of whites.

You probably know this but you don't have to be a member of AVS to peruse their discussion boreds.

Re - Burn in.
Let me be perfectly clear on this, we watch mostly TV, so our Panny's screen is filled completely up. However, we watch rented or owned DVDs and BRD's maybe 3 times a week (6 hrs) on average and there are, on almost all of the films, black bars on top. We've been doing this for 2.5 years this month, so that's about 750-800 hours (6hours x 52weeks x 2.5 years) of black bars. There is absolutely zero burn in. None, nada, zilch. The only issue I know of with plasma, these days at least, is reflections on the screen in well lit rooms. Ours is in a pseudo media room, not an issue even with ceiling cans turn up all the way. Reflections would be an issue in our living room (floor to ceiling windoze on our north wall), that's why we have the Sony in there.

One last note, skin tones are realistic on plasmas, much better than on our Sony or friends' LCD/LEDs.
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"E Burres Stigano?"


 

RE: Clouding (and btw, NOT an issue on our Sony LED), posted on July 14, 2013 at 08:58:41
CarlEber
Audiophile

Posts: 201
Joined: July 18, 2001
 Skin tones haven't been a problem with the LED 40 incher I'm about to send back. I also found the "skin tone" adjustment to work perfectly, unlike a lot who have criticized it. If skin tones ever look unnaturally pale, adding a bit of that fixes it; almost makes it look like the over ripe "sony look" re flesh tones. The reds even look over ripe and one dimensional on the 55 and 65 inch "4k" displays I have seen. The detail is mind-blowing, though. 4k is the future, where 3D may be yet another fad that has begun to fade.

So far (besides the obvious problem with the motion color artifacts on black subjects)...the only thing I (realistically) wish this 5000 tv (that I'm returning) had, is a finer increment to the adjustment of the color temperature. I suspect no tv has this, unless it's available via a service menu.

I have browsed the avs forum many times. Never said you had to be a member to browse, not sure where you got the idea that I thought you had to be a member to browse. But I need to join it so I can post my own question about the two TV's I mention in my initial post of this thread.

I'm leaning toward the Samsung 6300; it does look very good for the money. The backlight technique looks a lot more even than on this 5000 series, and also the pixels seem a lot sharper and higher in contrast...as if the transparent layer of the panel is clearer. It basically looks like the pixels are on the surface, similar to what a good plasma tv looks like (almost like the old Pioneer Elite plasmas, but not quite). Of course it does get a bit dimmer off axis, where a typical plasma tv does not.

 

My recent experience, posted on July 14, 2013 at 14:03:41
Alex F.
Audiophile

Posts: 877
Location: Florida
Joined: February 29, 2004
 Last month we purchased a Sony KDL-40R450A ($439 from Amazon) for a spare room. I am impressed with its video, delivering fine black levels, nice color saturation, and a color temperature close to 6500K. No visible lag on baseball games or on highlights from the NFL channel. A very nice TV.

In the master bedroom we have a Panasonic TC-P50U50 plasma, obtained last November from Amazon for $599. Compared with all high-end LED-driven LCD televisions I've checked out in stores (recalibrated by yours truly with permission of the salesmen), the inexpensive Panasonic plasma is clearly superior.

My wife says that watching a baseball game on the plasma (via DirecTV's MLB package in HD) is akin to looking through a luxury box window at the ballpark.

The plasma is used extensively for news (CNN, etc), business channels, Blu-ray movies (with 2.35:1 letterboxing), old b&w movies on TCM (with black sidebars), and sports. The plasma has been totally immune to pixel problems and burn-in.

We have a dedicated high-end theater room, which I designed for our house when constructed 11 years ago, yet we find ourselves watching the plasma far more frequently than anticipated. We are now huge fans of Panasonic's 1080p plasma televisions.

 

TV watching buddy has the Samsung 6400 55" , posted on July 14, 2013 at 21:06:45
Road Warrior
Audiophile

Posts: 21656
Location: Dallas
Joined: August 31, 2004
 Obvious motion artifacts even with motion flow (and its Soap Opera-ish image) turned on. It's tolerable for our 3 hour watching party at his house ever other Sunday but I'd never own it under ANY circumstance, even with its great color and contrast. But hey, if those two issues aren't deal breakers for you, go for it. But keep in mind, the issues are real, observable by ANY eye, and are well documented. The issues you bring up for plasmas are not in any way shape or form relevant for current (or near current) sets from the big (LG, Panny, Samsung) plasma manufacturers.
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"E Burres Stigano?"


 

Just for the record...., posted on July 14, 2013 at 23:21:39
kootenay
Audiophile

Posts: 8448
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Joined: October 16, 2007
 I have two plasma t.v.s a 42" Philips and a 50" Panny and none of them have any problems regarding pixels blowing up and on top of that both of them have been troubled free for the last 7 years.


 

Just for the record...., posted on July 14, 2013 at 23:24:41
kootenay
Audiophile

Posts: 8448
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Joined: October 16, 2007
 I have two plasma t.v.s a 42" Philips and a 50" Panny and none of them have any problems regarding pixels blowing up and on top of that both of them have been troubled free for the last 7 years.


 

Plasma is too good for him., posted on July 14, 2013 at 23:50:30
oldmkvi
Audiophile

Posts: 10606
Joined: April 12, 2002
 100% agreement among actual owners.
Still, I don't know...

 

I was told that screen burn in would only happen if , posted on July 15, 2013 at 07:56:51
oldmkvi
Audiophile

Posts: 10606
Joined: April 12, 2002
 I used a brighness setting brighter than Cinema, which is perfect in my room.
Also, leaving it in pause isn't good, altho the Screen Saver comes on after a short time.

 

Well, we're definitely not telling him what he wants to hear, posted on July 15, 2013 at 08:56:36
Road Warrior
Audiophile

Posts: 21656
Location: Dallas
Joined: August 31, 2004
 I don't consider myself a plasma fanboi. Of my two sets, a semi hi end Sony LCD/LED, and my cheap, bottom of the line, Panny, I simply prefer the picture and lack of issues of the Panny.
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"E Burres Stigano?"


 

RE: I was told that screen burn in would only happen if , posted on July 15, 2013 at 11:42:18
Alex F.
Audiophile

Posts: 877
Location: Florida
Joined: February 29, 2004
 I, too, found that the Panasonic's Cinema mode provides the most accurate picture, along with the color temperature set on Warm 2.

Our Panasonic plasma TV required about two weeks of use to settle down (regarding contrast, brightness, and hue). After that I was able to fine-tune the calibration and have not made adjustments again.

 

RE: TV watching buddy has the Samsung 6400 55" , posted on July 15, 2013 at 13:17:53
CarlEber
Audiophile

Posts: 201
Joined: July 18, 2001
 How old is the plasma you own? If it's not new, then the issues I describe do apply to it.

Why the overbearing hostility here? And what motion artifacts are you observing after watching a soap opera for 3 hours? You say it's well documented...how about you just tell me in your own words what specific motion artifacts you are seeing?

I've looked at a lot of sets lately, not seen any motion artifacts of any kind, other than with the one I'm sending back.

In any case your buddy wasted $2k just so he could have a "3D" 55 inch tv...that's his fault, not mine. The tv I'm considering is just over 1/3 the price of the 6400 series, yet the picture quality is equal or superior. Yawn...

 

RE: Well, we're definitely not telling him what he wants to hear, posted on July 15, 2013 at 13:19:17
CarlEber
Audiophile

Posts: 201
Joined: July 18, 2001
 Well then I suggest you only watch your beloved panny and sell the other one.

 

RE: My recent experience, posted on July 15, 2013 at 13:23:49
CarlEber
Audiophile

Posts: 201
Joined: July 18, 2001
 I'm glad your wife and you are so happy with your 8 month old plasma. The question is, how will it look in 2 or 3 years?

Again, I've not seen any motion artifacts on any LED tv I've looked at, other than the one I'm sending back.

Motion is not the weak point of LCD/LED...

 

Motion artifacts are his 6400 are manifested by , uhhh, jerky motion in scenes with movement , posted on July 15, 2013 at 14:30:21
Road Warrior
Audiophile

Posts: 21656
Location: Dallas
Joined: August 31, 2004
 I could use more technical terms but it's so visible I think jerky motion is the correct description. It's apparent either in "normal" mode or when he uses Motion Flow. I would have said nothing, except you mentioned the 6300 and his is one notch up the Samsung food chain. FTR, the 6300 you mentioned is considered a "Smart TV". Reviews I lightly perused at Amazon are positive for the most part, with the usual disclaimers for systemic problems like Soap Opera effect in the Motion Flow settings, and limited viewing angle.

Your petty little dig at Ted (Samsung 6400 owner) shows you know nothing of him but it tells us a lot about you Carl.

As I mentioned in one of my earlier posts, my base model 65" Panny is 2.5 years old. Like other posters here, it has no issues.

Underlying hostility? Hardly. Enjoy whatever set you buy and post yer thoughts Carl.
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"E Burres Stigano?"


 

Why would I sell the Sony? Then the living room wouldn't have a tv, posted on July 15, 2013 at 14:38:38
Road Warrior
Audiophile

Posts: 21656
Location: Dallas
Joined: August 31, 2004
 That'd be kinda silly wouldn't it Carl? Plasma wouldn't work in there anway as we have floor to ceiling windows that let in a wee bit too much light so I felt an edgelit Sony 55" LED would be a good match, and, it is!!
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"E Burres Stigano?"


 

RE: Motion artifacts are his 6400 are manifested by , uhhh, jerky motion in scenes with movement , posted on July 15, 2013 at 15:03:25
CarlEber
Audiophile

Posts: 201
Joined: July 18, 2001
 I mentioned in my very first post that the 6300 is a "smart tv"...wake up!

I've not seen any "jerky motion" in any TV's I've seen. You're saying you had two TV's up and running side by side and this 6400 had jerky motion, where a plasma did not? Or are you just commenting on jerky motion you saw...and assumed it was the fault of the tv and not the video source or content??

Haha, I'm not being any more petty than you are, and you know it ;-). !$1900 is a total waste of money on a 55 inch tv, that's just a fact.

And thanks, I do hope to enjoy whatever tv I wind up keeping...but I strongly doubt you will read anything I say about it, without a vain attempt at disputing every word of it. Thanks for caring though :P...

 

Now now..., posted on July 15, 2013 at 15:07:21
CarlEber
Audiophile

Posts: 201
Joined: July 18, 2001
 You could always read a book instead! Or else just sit at your computer and type away on the net...

Heaven forbid your living room should go without a tv!! You could always use darker curtains if there's too much light in there.

I mean, you're so passionate about the plasma tv, it just seems like you're kind of a hypocrite that you would own anything else, let alone actually spend time watching something on it. You definitely just aren't a serious videophile unless you sell the lesser tv and buy a better one...

 

I'm passionate about lots of things, not tvs. The curtains wife bought cost more than the tv. , posted on July 15, 2013 at 15:50:34
Road Warrior
Audiophile

Posts: 21656
Location: Dallas
Joined: August 31, 2004
 I AM passionate about not spending more money on flippin' curtains.
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"E Burres Stigano?"


 

Actually I don't post here often, posted on July 15, 2013 at 15:57:00
Road Warrior
Audiophile

Posts: 21656
Location: Dallas
Joined: August 31, 2004
 You asked for advice, thanked me for some, and did your small minded best to belittle and mischaracterize the rest of what I said. Here's a website for your consideration, you'll fit in very nicely with these folks

http://forums.meter.com/

Tell em Roadie sent you.

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"E Burres Stigano?"


 

RE: Actually I don't post here often, posted on July 15, 2013 at 16:12:57
CarlEber
Audiophile

Posts: 201
Joined: July 18, 2001
 Not true at all, and I'm not remotely small minded. I asked specifically about two LED TV's, and you and all the others who have posted, are obsessed with "panny" plasma TV's...and have had nothing intelligent or OBJECTIVE to say about the two TV's in question.

In my decades of forum experience, guys usually tend to like best, whatever they own. That however, does not entitle them to be right all the time, or even to know what they are talking about. Fanboi of the week award belongs to you though. Get over yourself, ok?

 

RE: I'm passionate about lots of things, not tvs. The curtains wife bought cost more than the tv. , posted on July 15, 2013 at 16:17:27
CarlEber
Audiophile

Posts: 201
Joined: July 18, 2001
 Well get shades instead or something, I don't know. Perhaps your wife needs to learn the value of a dollar...then she might not spend so much on curtains. This reminds me of those shower curtains that cost $5000...You don't work for the IRS do you? Taken many junkets to Vegas this year? Acted out any old "Star Trek" tv scenes? You know, as a "team building" exercise?

 

Nahh Carl, I actually work against the IRS and other taxing agencies, posted on July 15, 2013 at 17:01:53
Road Warrior
Audiophile

Posts: 21656
Location: Dallas
Joined: August 31, 2004
 on behalf of big, medium, and little oil. The curtains turned out very nice and represented very good value relative to the house. With custom made, you always wonder if they'll look like the samples the designer showed you. I saw your system, btw. Lots of exotic goodies in there Carl. One COULD pick at the value of certain items IF one were a small minded prick.
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"E Burres Stigano?"


 

whatever you say (rolls eyes), posted on July 15, 2013 at 21:36:42
CarlEber
Audiophile

Posts: 201
Joined: July 18, 2001
 Good for you. Maybe as soon as I overthrow the government and instigate the next civil war, people like you will come in handy...as pawns that is. ;-)

Haha, and since you did not, that makes you not a small minded prick? Keep telling yourself that. Btw, that was my system about a decade ago...I've been in and out of highend stuff since then (and the stuff listed was not all that expensive or exotic...it was quite common.) If I could afford exotic pieces now, I would buy them. Of course I would have to be a supremely intelligent prick, rather than a small minded one who only likes what I own and wants to trash what other people own, or otherwise are curious about. Do you know anybody like that?

Not wanting a plasma tv, does not make me small minded. You thinking anyone who watches anything other than one to be an idiot, makes you closed minded.

 

RE: My recent experience, posted on July 15, 2013 at 21:43:46
Alex F.
Audiophile

Posts: 877
Location: Florida
Joined: February 29, 2004
 The Panasonic plasma is so superior to any LED-illuminated LCD TV that I've seen that I could not live with an LED unit for everyday use. I would know what I'm missing whenever I watched the LED TV.

Like a neighbor's four-year-old Panasonic plasma, and based on my own research, I have no doubt we will be enjoying our plasma for many years to come.

 

Have a great day Carl^, posted on July 16, 2013 at 06:37:54
Road Warrior
Audiophile

Posts: 21656
Location: Dallas
Joined: August 31, 2004
----------------------

"E Burres Stigano?"


 

RE: My recent experience, posted on July 16, 2013 at 07:54:55
Hornlover
Manufacturer

Posts: 2529
Joined: March 8, 2002
 Our first Panasonic plasma (50") is over seven years old, and still looks fabulous. I know other folks that also have sets with a number of years on them, and they still work fine. Face it Carl, we wont let you get anything but a Panasonic plasma, so just quit arguing and get down to Best Buy, and do it. Plasmas are like heroine. Once you do it, you will be forever hooked. Common' Carl, you will like it...

 

RE: My recent experience, posted on July 16, 2013 at 12:54:25
CarlEber
Audiophile

Posts: 201
Joined: July 18, 2001
 Well at least you're trying to be objective and not just liking what you own...oh wait...nevermind :-D...

 

RE: My recent experience, posted on July 16, 2013 at 13:12:09
CarlEber
Audiophile

Posts: 201
Joined: July 18, 2001
 Thanks for your input. By the way, if you have some kind of exotic horn system with tubes, I would love to come listen someday! I haven't looked at your system list...

I've looked at plasmas at Best Buy, Sears, HH Gregg...there's something about the way they look that I don't like. I also don't like how they work. I especially don't like the highly reflective screen (even though I mostly watch in a darker than average basement home theater room ).

If plasma is so superior, why hasn't anyone made a 4k plasma set yet?

Could it be because the future of tv is OLED, and LED/LCD is the closest thing to that ??

I haven't just fallen off your turnip truck. I've seen plasma sets for many years, over a decade...since they first came out. I was tempted to buy a Pioneer Elite for someone, and it was only a 720p back in 2005...Originally $5000 but "on sale" for like $4000 as I recall. Kind of glad I didn't bite, even though the money was not mine anyway. The rear projector they bought instead, still works great...a couple of replacement lamps later. It was about $2500 back in '05 ( bought it online ), but listed for $3400, which was Best Buy's price. Tiger Direct closed them out a year later for $1300.

The "latest and greatest" $5000 or $6000 Panasonic Plasma, from what I saw at Best Buy ( ours has a "magnolia" room, but they don't seem to have any magnolia trees in there ), does not have the color rendition of the old Pioneer Elites. Its screen is also a whole lot more reflective than the Pioneer's of yesteryear.

The plasmas under $1000 definitely do not impress me, either. Certainly the blacks go very black, but that's about it. The colors do not look special in any way, nor does the contrast. The top of the line ones are a lot of money, which I would certainly spend instead on a front projector in the $2k to $3k range...if I was going to blow that much money right now. I would still be buying a 46 inch LED set in addition, though...

I guess no one on video asylum likes LED LCD TV's, and that's fine I guess...but it's kind of backward, clinging to old technology.

I am not against anyone enjoying the set they have. But you do come off as a fanboy rather than an objective knowledgeable person...when all you can do is shout from those internet rooftops that what you own is better than everything else ( for similar money ). This goes for everyone who has replied here so far, and not just you. You're kind of all drinking the proverbial koolaid...I'll pass thanks much though.

 

the best advice, posted on July 16, 2013 at 17:34:35
Joe Murphy Jr
Audiophile

Posts: 4424
Joined: February 3, 2001
 came from three_sox: buy what you like.


So far no one here seems to have compared the two models that you mentioned. You may be able to find someone at AVS Forum who has seen both or perhaps owns one of the two. That's probably the best you can do re: forum input vs actually seeing these two displays side by side and running test patterns for comparison.

I do not know why others have kept up the push for your purchase of a plasma when it is quite obvious, and was early on, that plasma does not suit your taste in displays. As three_sox said, you need to buy what's most pleasing to your eyes and that seems to be LED LCD.

 

Ahem, posted on July 16, 2013 at 21:20:39
Alex F.
Audiophile

Posts: 877
Location: Florida
Joined: February 29, 2004
 Sometimes it feels good to try to be helpful. On very rare occasions, like this one, it is as enjoyable as sticking a keyboard up the nose. Excuse me now, I'm having difficulty breathing...

(Permanently signing off on this thread.)

 

agree 100% on plasma, posted on July 21, 2013 at 11:56:13
mbnx01
Audiophile

Posts: 7958
Location: Eagle, Idaho
Joined: October 22, 2004
 My buddy had a very expensive HT setup with a Plasma tv. It had a great picture. IN A PITCH BLACK ROOM. Any light at all and the PQ went way down.

I ended up with a 60" Samsung from Costco and love it. If you adjust it carefully it has a spectacular pic. And zero isues with burn in which has not magically gone away with the current generation of Plasmas'.

If I wanted a smaller set for say a bedroom or a condo and I ONLY watched at night I'd consider a plasma.



'A lie is halfway around the world before the truth gets its boots on'. -Mark Twain

 

RE: agree 100% on plasma, posted on July 22, 2013 at 18:06:24
CarlEber
Audiophile

Posts: 201
Joined: July 18, 2001
 Well it's good to see one or two people who chose an LCD. After a bit more research, I decided to try the Samsung F6300. It turns out there is only one version of the panel, rather than a good one and a cheap one (as with my previous experience with Samsung).

It won't arrive for a few more days. I will post my opinion and the settings after I give it a go.

 

RE: the best advice, posted on July 22, 2013 at 18:12:33
CarlEber
Audiophile

Posts: 201
Joined: July 18, 2001
 Thank you. I did join AVS, and it did prove helpful.

I think basically, it's because audioasylum is an audio site. So the few here that are also into video, tend to not be the types that either spend the most money on video, or especially do not buy new TV's very often. Hence you get a lot of "but...but...my tv has worked perfectly for 8 years", yada yada.

Plasma has its place, but to get so irate and militant about how that's the only choice for a quality display...especially when I stated the two TV's I was interested in, and also that I specifically was not interested in buying a plasma...well it was childish and rude. But that's an internet forum for ya. People behave the same way on facebook and twitter...so I guess it's not just confined to a forum.

 

best advice vs best choice, posted on July 22, 2013 at 22:27:29
Joe Murphy Jr
Audiophile

Posts: 4424
Joined: February 3, 2001
 My take on this thread is that you are set on LED LCD, so why try to steer you in another direction especially considering your follow up remarks? It's the best advice based on what you said in your initial post and the responses that you provided to those who made comments. In my opinion, you will feel most fulfilled by purchasing what your eyes consider the best representation of the display technology that you favor.




That said, in my opinion, the inmates on this forum who have suggested plasma are spot on. Unless you have a bright environment or use your display for computer work, plasma is the better choice -- hands down. As a matter of fact, I would rather watch the 50" plasma display in my living room (it was manufactured in Q3 '03) than any of the equivalent size LCD or LED LCD displays that I have seen to date. The picture that plasma presents, mostly due to its ties to CRT and the fact that it is an emmissive (light starts at the screen/glass) vs transmissive display type (LCD, LED LCD, DLP, etc work by filtering the light), make it the clear choice for viewing. A properly calibrated plasma display gets you closer to that "looking through a window" feeling than any of the other display types. There are no dead spots with plasma: you get pretty much the same picture anywhere you sit and you can sit below, above, to the left or to the right of center. Other display types, not so much and they can be from bad to hideous.

Furthermore, you have made numerous comments against plasma display technology that are just plain wrong. I'm not going to take the time to address them all, but regardless of whether it's through misinformation, misunderstanding or simply unfounded/undeserved prejudice, it's still wrong.

 

RE: best advice vs best choice, posted on July 23, 2013 at 11:00:25
CarlEber
Audiophile

Posts: 201
Joined: July 18, 2001
 Joe, thanks for your thoughts.

However, I am aware of how plasma works. I learned it when they came out over a decade ago. (From the top of my head...not reading anything first...here it is in my own words): Each RGB pixel acts effectively as a mini CRT, its brightness is modulated by fast pulses, digitally controlled. The end result is a wider viewing angle than backlit techniques, because the light emits directly from the pixel in almost a 180 degree cone. And theoretically it can display more colors (but not necessarily a wider color gamut), than backlit technologies such as LCD. But I say, so what?

Thanks for not giving me credit for thinking and observing on my own. I detect a condescending tone from you. Is it really necessary?

Frankly, it is you who is wrong, about what is important to me. You know what's important to you, but you have no clue what aspects of performance I want. I have looked at MANY PLASMA TV's over the years. The thing I like LEAST about them, is their coarse pixel pitch. This is the main reason nobody ever built a plasma computer monitor.

In case you did not read my initial post, I said I am coming from using a front projector in my home theater, with a screen 112 inches wide. For the time being I am not going to buy a new projector. However, there are times when I still want to see a large picture. Therefore, I sit quite close to the screen of a smaller tv. A plasma, up close, is UNWATCHABLE. An LCD with finer pixel pitch, is watchable, and looks quite decent when viewing up close.

Once I get this Samsung tv I just ordered set up properly, you are welcome to bring your old plasma tv to my home and set it up side by side. Then you can sit up close to both, and we will see just how much better you think your old plasma is.

If you're unwilling to do the above, then I suggest you climb off your high horse, and stop looking down your nose at those who buy LCD/LED TV's. Plasma technology can only go so far in its development now. As a display technique it has fallen out of favor in the marketplace. Backlit and other types of display technology, are still relatively young in their development. Sony's new 4k tv's, are not a plasma. They are LED backlit LCD.

I know of no brand that will bring out a 4k plasma, do you? If plasma is the end all and be all, why was it not chosen to produce the first 4k TV's? Even Panasonic themselves, have no plans to use plasma to produce their 4k TV's...rather it looks like it might be OLED...but they might have to partner with Sony to pull it off. Perhaps we'll see a Panasonic 4k tv by 2014, time will tell. It won't be very affordable.

Have a look at this. Read the end where it says Panasonic's tv division hasn't turned a profit since 2011...
http://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/panasonic-vows-to-go-all-in-on-4k-ultra-hd-by-2014/

Then there's the elephant in the room. OLED technology promises to exceed all other tv types in every performance parameter, in any case. It might take 5 years or more for it to become commonplace, but if it does, it will certainly displace plasma as the best technically performing display technology...once and for all.

It will be expensive, and those who adopt it early, will come on forums like this and tell everyone that they wish they all could afford to have the best, and isn't it a shame.

Good luck with your tv watching, and consider my challenge to you.

 

have a nice day [nt], posted on July 23, 2013 at 13:28:48
Joe Murphy Jr
Audiophile

Posts: 4424
Joined: February 3, 2001
 .

 

Sorry Carl...., posted on July 31, 2013 at 01:51:40
kootenay
Audiophile

Posts: 8448
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Joined: October 16, 2007

But Panasonic's 152-inch 4K-resolution 3D plasma will be shipping this fall. But it'll cost you.

 

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