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In Reply to: To each his own I guess, but I don't consider Brando the finest just because he played so many different roles. posted by Audiophilander on October 7, 2005 at 16:50:54:
Brando was the best alone because of his range but because of the quality of his range.
Look at "The Ugly American" and then "Apocalypse Now," to name just two.
You think wimpy Hopper is a biker? C'mon, that snively-nosed little boy who has been aping James Dean his whole acting life?
Brando BELIEVEABLY kicked Lee Marvin's ass in The Wild One. I can't think of too many actors that could do it.
Remember, too, that Brando was considered a major force in theater, too. He made Tennessee William's Streetcar savage come to life.
Nope, no one's close.
Kind of like Bette Davis. No other woman approaches her range and skill within it.
To be greatest, you must be so over a period of years, in many films.
Rod Steiger. Oh c'mon!
Follow Ups:
Sometimes a single performance from an actor or single movie in the case of a Director can make the individual a legend. Yes, a body of work can be judged for depth and bredth, but in the final analysis it's the individual performance which will attain greatness. Orson Welles had a rather brief career as a Director, but Citizen Kane is regarded by many as the greatest achievement in film. If you haven't seen Renee Falconetti's performance in The Passion of Joan of Arc I'd recommend renting or buying the Criterion release of this gem. This single performance stands as perhaps the most convincing roles ever.AuPh
repeated it or anything else similar.
The problem with Steiger is he is old school. You can see him acting. As has been pointed out, Brando was a Beethoven: nothing was the same after him. When he played a character, he wasn't one-sided. Notice how in many of his roles he could bring out the "softer" side of a violent man and not weaken it. That was because of his animal magnetism. No one else burned up the screen like that.
Also, no other leading man had the threatening presence of Brando, yet could, the next moment, be sensitive (sorry, that's the only way to describe it). Look at The Wild Ones, again.
You put Steiger way higher than he belongs. In the Heat of the Night, Pawnbroker... highly rated in their day and now all but relegated to obscurity (rightly so).
Most people, when you mention Steiger, unless they're film buffs, go "who?"
The greatest do not toil in obscurity, auph.
Just look at the range of performances during his long prestigious career:Actor - filmography
(2000s) (1990s) (1980s) (1970s) (1960s) (1950s)1. Poolhall Junkies (2002) .... Nick
2. The Hollywood Sign (2001) .... Floyd Benson
... aka Himmel von Hollywood, Der (Germany)
3. A Month of Sundays (2001) .... Charley McCabe
4. The Flying Dutchman (2001) .... Ben
... aka Frozen in Fear (USA: video title)
5. Lightmaker (2001) .... King Osso
6. The Last Producer (2000) .... Sheri Ganse
... aka The Final Hit (USA: video title)
7. Animated Epics: Moby Dick (2000) (TV) .... Ahab8. End of Days (1999) .... Father Kovak
9. The Hurricane (1999) .... Judge Sarokin
10. "Chicken Soup for the Soul" (1999) TV Series
11. Shiloh 2: Shiloh Season (1999) .... Doc Wallace
12. Crazy in Alabama (1999) .... Judge Louis Mead
13. Cypress Edge (1999) .... Woodrow McCammon
14. Legacy (1998/I) .... Sadler
15. Modern Vampires (1998) .... Dr. Frederick Van Helsing
... aka Revenant (UK: video title)
16. Animals and the Tollkeeper (1998) .... Fontina
17. Alexandria Hotel (1998)
18. Body and Soul (1998) .... Johnny Ticotin
19. The Snatching of Bookie Bob (1998) .... Bookie Bob
20. Incognito (1997) .... Milton A. Donovan
21. Livers Ain't Cheap (1997) .... Victor
... aka The Real Thing
22. Truth or Consequences, N.M. (1997) .... Tony Vago
23. The Kid (1997) .... Harry Sloan
24. Mars Attacks! (1996) .... General Decker
25. Shiloh (1996) .... Doc Wallace
26. EZ Streets (1996) (TV) .... Quinn's father
27. Carpool (1996) .... Mr. Hammerman
28. Dalva (1996) (TV) .... John Wesley Northridge II
29. Out There (1995) (TV) .... Col. Buck Gunner
30. Columbo: Strange Bedfellows (1995) (TV) .... Vincenzo Fortelli
... aka Columbo: Une étrange association (France)
31. In Pursuit of Honor (1995) (TV) .... Col. Owen Stuart
32. Choices of the Heart: The Margaret Sanger Story (1995) (TV) .... Anthony Comstock
33. OP Center (1995) (TV) .... Boroda
... aka Tom Clancy's 'OP Center'
34. Tous les jours dimanche (1995) .... Benjamin
... aka Seven Sundays (USA)
... aka Tutti i giorni č domenica (Italy)
35. Captain Nuke and the Bomber Boys (1995) .... The President
... aka Demolition Day
36. Little Surprises (1995) (TV) .... Joe
37. The Specialist (1994) .... Joe Leon
... aka Especialista, El (Peru)
38. The Last Tattoo (1994) .... Gen. Frank Zane
39. "Tales of the City" (1993) (mini) TV Series .... Bookstore Owner
... aka Armistead Maupin's Tales of the City
40. Kölcsönkapott idö (1993) .... Sepak
... aka Living on Borrowed Time (International: English title: informal title)
41. The Neighbor (1993) .... Dr. Myron Hatch
42. Sinatra (1992) (TV) .... Sam (Salvatore) 'Momo' Giancana
43. Due vite, un destino (1992) (TV)
... aka The Final Contract (International: English title)
44. Guilty as Charged (1991) .... Ben Kallin
45. In the Line of Duty: Manhunt in the Dakotas (1991) (TV) .... Gordon Kahl
... aka In the Line of Duty: The Twilight Murders
... aka Midnight Murders
46. The Ballad of the Sad Cafe (1991) .... Rev. Willin
47. Men of Respect (1991) .... Charlie D'Amico48. Try This One for Size (1989)
... aka Sauf votre respect (France)
49. Tennessee Nights (1989) .... Judge Prescott
... aka Black Water
... aka Tennessee Waltz (USA)
50. Passion and Paradise (1989) (TV) .... Sir Harry Oakes
51. January Man (1989) .... Mayor Eamon Flynn
... aka The January Man (USA: poster title)
52. Djavolji raj (1989) .... Martin
... aka That Summer of White Roses
53. American Gothic (1988) .... Pa
... aka Hide and Shriek
54. Desperado: Avalanche at Devil's Ridge (1988) (TV) .... Silas Slaten
55. The Kindred (1987) .... Dr. Phillip Lloyd
56. Catch the Heat (1987) .... Jason Hannibal
... aka Feel the Heat
... aka Sentir la persecusión (Argentina)
... aka Sin escape (Argentina)
57. Sword of Gideon (1986) (TV) .... Mordechai Samuels
58. "Hollywood Wives" (1985) (mini) TV Series .... Oliver Easterne
59. The Glory Boys (1984) (TV) .... Sokarev
60. The Naked Face (1984) .... Lieutenant McGreary
61. Cook & Peary: The Race to the Pole (1983) (TV) .... Robert E. Peary
62. Zauberberg, Der (1982) .... Mynheer Peperkorn
... aka Montagne magique, La (France)
... aka The Magic Mountain
63. The Chosen (1981) .... Reb Saunders
64. Cattle Annie and Little Britches (1981) .... Tilghman
65. Lion of the Desert (1981) .... Benito Mussolini
... aka Omar Mukhtar: Lion of the Desert
66. The Lucky Star (1980) .... Colonel Gluck
... aka Belle étoile, La (Canada: French title)
67. Klondike Fever (1980) .... Soapy Smith
... aka Jack London's Klondike Fever68. Love and Bullets (1979) .... Joe Bomposa
69. The Amityville Horror (1979) .... Father Delaney
70. Steiner - Das eiserne Kreuz, 2. Teil (1979) .... Gen. Webster
... aka Breakthrough (USA)
... aka Sergeant Steiner
71. F.I.S.T (1978) .... Senator Andrew Madison
72. Wolf Lake (1978) .... Charlie
... aka The Honor Guard
73. "Jesus of Nazareth" (1977) (mini) TV Series .... Pontius Pilate
... aka Gesů di Nazareth (Italy)
74. Portrait of a Hitman (1977) .... Max Andreotti
... aka Jim Buck
... aka The Last Contract
75. W.C. Fields and Me (1976) .... W.C. Fields
76. Hennessy (1975) .... Niall Hennessy
77. Innocents aux mains sales, Les (1975) .... Louis Wormser
... aka Dirty Hands (USA)
... aka Innocenti dalle mani sporche, Gli (Italy)
... aka Innocents with Dirty Hands
... aka Unschuldigen mit den schmutzigen Händen, Die (West Germany)
78. Lucky Luciano (1974) .... Gene Giannini
... aka A proposito Lucky Luciano
... aka Re Lucky Luciano
79. Mussolini: Ultimo atto (1974) .... Benito Mussolini
... aka Mussolini: The Last Four Days
... aka The Last Days of Mussolini
... aka The Last Four Days (USA)
... aka The Last Tyrant
80. Eroi, Gli (1973) .... Guenther von Lutz, German baron
... aka Enfants de choeur, Les (France)
... aka Héroes millonarios, Los (Spain)
... aka Héros, Les (France)
... aka The Heroes
81. Lolly-Madonna XXX (1973) .... Laban Feather
... aka The Lolly-Madonna War (UK)
82. Happy Birthday, Wanda June (1971) .... Harold Ryan
... aka Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.'s Happy Birthday, Wanda June (USA: complete title)
83. Giů la testa (1971) .... Juan Miranda
... aka A Fistful of Dynamite (UK) (USA: alternative title)
... aka C'era una volta la rivoluzione (Italy)
... aka Duck, You Sucker (USA)
... aka Once Upon a Time... the Revolution
84. Waterloo (1970/I) .... Napoleon Bonaparte85. Three Into Two Won't Go (1969) .... Steve Howard
86. The Illustrated Man (1969) .... Carl
87. The Sergeant (1968) .... MSgt. Albert Callan
88. No Way to Treat a Lady (1968) .... Christopher Gill
89. Ragazza e il generale, La (1967) .... The General
... aka Fille et le général, La (France)
... aka The Girl and the General (USA)
90. In the Heat of the Night (1967) .... Police Chief Bill Gillespie
91. Death of a Salesman (1966/I) (TV) .... Willy Loman
... aka Play of the Month: Death of a Salesman (UK: series title)
92. Doctor Zhivago (1965) .... Victor Komarovsky
93. The Loved One (1965) .... Mr. Joyboy
94. E venne un uomo (1965) .... The Intermediary
... aka A Man Named John (UK)
... aka And There Came a Man
95. The Pawnbroker (1964) .... Sol Nazerman
96. The Movie Maker (1964) (TV)
... aka A Slow Fade to Black (USA)
97. Indifferenti, Gli (1964) .... Leo
... aka Deux rivales, Les (France)
... aka Time of Indifference (USA)
98. Mani sulla cittŕ, Le (1963) .... Edoardo Nottola
... aka Hands Over the City
... aka Main basse sur la ville (France)
99. The Longest Day (1962) .... Destroyer commander
100. Convicts 4 (1962) .... 'Tiptoes'
... aka Convicts 4 (USA)
... aka Reprieve
101. 13 West Street (1962) .... Detective Sergeant Koleski
102. The Mark (1961) .... Dr. Edmund McNally
103. An einem Freitag um halb zwölf (1961) .... Frank Morgan
... aka Mondo nella mia tasca, Il (Italy)
... aka On Friday at Eleven
... aka The World in My Pocket (USA)
... aka Vendredi 13 heures (France)
104. Seven Thieves (1960) .... Paul Mason/John Edwards105. Al Capone (1959) .... Al Capone
106. Cry Terror! (1958) .... Paul Hoplin
107. Across the Bridge (1957) .... Carl Schaffner
108. Run of the Arrow (1957) .... Pvt. O'Meara
... aka Hot Lead (USA: video title)
109. The Unholy Wife (1957) .... Paul Hochen
... aka The Lady and the Prowler (USA)
110. Back from Eternity (1956) .... Vasquel
111. The Harder They Fall (1956) .... Nick Benko
112. Jubal (1956) .... Pinky, Horgan Rider
113. The Court-Martial of Billy Mitchell (1955) .... Maj. Allan Gullion
... aka One Man Mutiny (UK)
114. The Big Knife (1955) .... Stanley Shriner Hoff
115. Oklahoma! (1955) .... Jud Fry
116. On the Waterfront (1954) .... Charley 'the Gent' Malloy
117. Marty (1953) (TV) .... Marty Pilletti
118. Teresa (1951) .... Frank
Brando couldn't begin to touch this body of work, and so many of Steiger's roles are memorable, even haunting! For instnce:Charley "the Gent" Malloy in On the Waterfront
The sadistic Pinky in Jubal
Al Capone in the s/t movie
Sol Nazerman in The Pawnbroker (I differ with you strongly about his role here)
Mr. Joyboy in The Loved One (definitely not PC, but cleverly done)
Victor in Dr. Zhivago (hmmm, ...naw let's not go there! ;^D)
Police Chief Bill Gillespie as the racist southern cop in In The Heat of the Night
Carl as the brooding tatooed man in Ray Bradbury's The Illustrated Man
and so on...Look at the depth and variety of roles interpreting famous figures:
Napoleon Bonaparte
Mussolini
W. C. Fields
Pontius Pilate
Robert E. PerryI just can't see Brando in half of these roles; here's Brando's filmography:
Actor - filmography
(In Production) (2000s) (1990s) (1980s) (1970s) (1960s) (1950s)1. Big Bug Man (2006) (filming) (voice) .... Mrs. Sour
2. The Godfather: The Game (2006) (VG) (voice) .... Don Corleone
3. The Score (2001) .... Max
... aka The Score (Germany)4. Free Money (1998) .... The Swede
5. The Brave (1997) .... McCarthy
6. The Island of Dr. Moreau (1996) .... Dr. Moreau
7. Don Juan DeMarco (1995) .... Dr. Jack Mickler
8. Christopher Columbus: The Discovery (1992) .... Tomas de Torquemada
... aka Cristóbal Colón: el descubrimiento (Spain)
9. The Godfather Trilogy: 1901-1980 (1992) (V) .... Don Vito Corleone
... aka The Godfather Saga (USA)
... aka The Godfather Trilogy
10. The Freshman (1990) .... Carmine Sabatini, aka Jimmy The Toucan11. A Dry White Season (1989) .... Ian McKenzie
12. The Formula (1980) .... Adam Steiffel, Chairman Titan Oil
... aka Formel, Die (West Germany)13. Apocalypse Now (1979) .... Colonel Walter E. Kurtz
... aka Apocalypse Now Redux (International: English title: longer version)
14. "Roots: The Next Generations" (1979) (mini) TV Series .... George Lincoln Rockwell
15. Superman (1978) .... Jor-El
... aka Superman: The Movie
16. The Missouri Breaks (1976) .... Robert E. Lee Clayton
17. Ultimo tango a Parigi (1972) .... Paul
... aka Last Tango in Paris (UK) (USA)
... aka Dernier Tango ŕ Paris, Le (France)
18. The Godfather (1972) .... Don Vito Corleone
... aka Mario Puzo's The Godfather (USA: complete title)
19. The Nightcomers (1972) .... Peter Quint20. Queimada (1969) .... Sir William Walker
... aka Burn! (USA)
... aka The Mercenary (Canada: English title)
21. The Night of the Following Day (1968) .... Chauffeur aka Bud
22. Candy (1968) .... Grindl
... aka Candy e il suo pazzo mondo (Italy)
23. Reflections in a Golden Eye (1967) .... Maj. Weldon Penderton
24. A Countess from Hong Kong (1967) .... Ogden Mears
25. The Appaloosa (1966) .... Matt Fletcher
... aka Southwest to Sonora (UK)
26. The Chase (1966) .... Sheriff Calder
27. Morituri (1965) .... Robert Crain
... aka The Saboteur, Code Name Morituri (UK)
28. Bedtime Story (1964) .... Freddy Benson
29. The Ugly American (1963) .... Ambassador Harrison Carter MacWhite
30. Mutiny on the Bounty (1962) .... 1st Lt. Fletcher Christian
31. One-Eyed Jacks (1961) .... Rio32. The Fugitive Kind (1959) .... Valentine 'Snakeskin' Xavier
33. The Young Lions (1958) .... Lt. Christian Diestl
34. Sayonara (1957) .... Maj. Lloyd 'Ace' Gruver, USAF
35. The Teahouse of the August Moon (1956) .... Sakini
36. Guys and Dolls (1955) .... Sky Masterson
37. Desirée (1954) .... Napoleon Bonaparte
38. On the Waterfront (1954) .... Terry Malloy
39. The Wild One (1953) .... Johnny Strabler/Narrator
... aka Hot Blood (USA: first screenings title)
40. Julius Caesar (1953) .... Marc Antony
... aka William Shakespeare's Julius Caesar
41. Viva Zapata! (1952) .... Emiliano Zapata
42. A Streetcar Named Desire (1951) .... Stanley Kowalski
43. The Men (1950) .... Ken
... aka Battle Stripe (USA: reissue title)I'll give him diversity and even some very memorable roles but I still think that Steiger has the edge.
He was a so-so Marc Antony albeit a very good Emiliano Zapata. He was an okay Napoleon Bonaparte, but a painful singer with only adequate comic timing in Guys and Dolls. He was good as Rio in One Eyed Jacks but the weakest of the Fletcher Christians in the three best known versions of Mutiny On the Bounty. He was GREAT as Don Vito Corleone in The Godfather and a terrible Jor El in Superman (going through the motions to collect a paycheck). Brando was effective as Col. Walter E. Kurtz in Apocolypse Now, but out of his depth as Tomas de Torquemada in Christopher Columbus: The Discovery.
I'm hoping that you'll at least acknowledge my point here, even if you disagree with my assessments.
Cheers,
AuPh
of his roles were in top 1000 films? He goes toe to toe with Brando and you ask 100 film fans who played his character and they'd go... "Ok, I give?" It's a great trivia question.
Brando was a leading actor. You can't compare the two, for Chrissakes.
One Brando performance, let's say "Apocalypse Now," was worth the entire opus of Steiger. You're comparing the second violinist of a major orchestra to a Heifetz.
Just look at their two interpretations of Napoleon. One is boring with no surprises and then there's the mercurial, many-sided Brando's.
Anyhow, thanks for being my foil (har har).
I disagree with you adamantly about the 95% crap assessment, unless you mean that 95% of everything is crap, in which case I could point to 95% of Brando's output as well. As I said before, there are some of Brando's roles which stand out and I do like those, but there are at least as many if not twice as many of Rod Steiger's performances which I find riveting.BTW, I couldn't care less about trivia questions, but keep in mind that Brando went out of his way to remain controversial most of his career and that will maintain his legendary status if nothing else will; in my view his reputation is mixed, at best. If you need examples, I'll gladly provide them:
*Here is a man who refused to take Direction from Frank Oz because he had worked with muppets earlier in his career insultingly refering to him as "Miss Piggy" on the set and trying to have him removed purely based on his own ego; eventually direction had to be handled through an intermediary, his embarrassed co-star.
*His South Sea's debauchery during the filming of Mutiny on the Bounty was scandalous and his difficult behavior during the filming of Apocalypse Now has been well recorded. Directors shooting on location apparently just couldn't take this guy anywhere! ;^)
*His outrageous priced cameos for telephoned in performances are as legendary as his greatest roles, like his walk on performance as Jor El in Superman, where he was reportedly paid over $1,000,000 to just stand there and look patronly!
The list goes on and on. In my book Brando will always be a mixed bag, certainly more of a male star with a Diva's attitude than a talented actor.
AuPh
Steiger was never short of roles and played every one of them to perfection
Even his bad films ( eg The Sergeant ) are still way better than mostBrandos momentum was fueled by his early films where he was "cute", and as such a box-office draw, something that Steiger never had going for him
Rod Steiger was an actors actor, he maintained his craft his entire career without ever becoming irrelevant, or becoming a parody of himself (or a fat slob like you-know-who)
Grins
~AH
~AH
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