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Never mind oscars and box-office - those don't count with me (nor my film buff wife).We both like movies - (films) that are also literature. AB qualifies.
I checked some of the earilier posts, and found that Victor was viscerally offened by it (visceral - my word, not his).
He cited a Russian word which loosely and inadequately translates as "poor taste".
Interesting - to me anyway - because I thought the film was extremely sure-footed, absent of the usual calculated compromises and gratutitous stupidities and manipulations that infect most Hollywood fare. It had feel of a single sure hand - that of an auteur. No wrong steps, no false moments. It really worked on second viewing for me too.
If Victor cares, I wonder if his objections have become more concrete sincc his last comments?
What was also interesting to me was that so many of the comments I read about AB (not, I admit, from any reviewers of quality) caught only the surface of the film.
FWIW - I think Six Feet Under is brilliant too - and Golden Globes don't count, either.
Follow Ups:
I was one of the ones who found it distasteful.Sure, it had its moments of wonderful directing, lighting and cinematography, but that's where the attraction ended for me.
I did, however, find it astonishing that Chris Cooper was not even mentioned for an award of his portrayal of Colonel Frank Fitts. Superb acting, IMO.
My $.02 worth.
Aurelio S.
I agree it's a brilliant film and have said so in this forum.Viktor's got no monopoly on taste or insight from what I've read of him. My only comment is that he has a peculiar tendency, but he is, after all, new to this country.
***My only comment is that he has a peculiar tendency, but he is, after all, new to this country.Dear edta, isn't "this country" a part of mankind? Don't Americans feel pain and bleed when stabbed with a knife? Don't they experience love, joy, hatred, anguish, indifference, depression, sexual desires just like 100% of the rest of this beautiful world?
Last time I checked, the army uniforms were different, languages too, but not the emotions - just the ways of expressing them.
One can try to hide bad quality behind some "national barrier", but the truth is masterpieces pierce those barriers with no difficulty, but junk remain junk in any language.
And yes, there have been far better American films than the American Beauty.
and I find a lot a agree with.Just trying to draw him out on AB.
which is exceedingly rare.AB stinks. we agree
Barry Lyndon is definitely more than a one night stand. we agree
2001 is over his head. we agree
...you never replied to my post on Being John Malkovich, so we shall never know for sure.And to think that I spend the whole year trying to accomodat eyour request...
the problem i have with you VK is sometimes (sometimes) you force me to examine how i actually (honestly) feel about something and confront a prejudice (a pre-conceived notion) that i held unaware or in spite.my (new) truth is: it sucked.
i can't believe you forced me to agree with you, but there you are.
so, in the future, when i don't respond to your query, it's because.
***
now, dare shed the Blizzaks?
is it safe?
***now, dare shed the Blizzaks?Blizzaks? What Blizzaks? You meant those black blobs of matter in my garage?
***is it safe?
I think they are quite safe there, in the garage... I only drove on them for a few days.
Sorry to break your peaceful existance every now and then. Life is a bitch - no?
do check out Donnie Darko, which has the same feel as AB but with different twists & themes.
Which Russian word was that?As far as the AB, I honestly have not given it much thought at all.
Movies produce two impacts. One is immediate and is indicative of certain aspects of film.
But more important is the long lasting effect or lack thereoff. Good movies keep lingering in your mind for long time... years, decades. I still remember everything associated with the first time I saw the Wild Strawberries - the setting, the company, the mood and the impression. You keep coming back to them, to scenes, images, to general moods and impressions. That is true of many great films.
The problem with AB is that besides being weak, it was also immediately forgettable. Like having a bad steak - you simply move on, as there is nothing to dwell on.
I usually say: why waste time with mediocre and bad films when there are soooooo many good ones still unwatched? To me there are so many better ones out there that again, no thought about the AB ever crosses my mind unless someone brings it up. I would much rather talk about something that touches me deeply.
Exerpted from earlier Victor post:
***In my opinion American Beauty is far from being as weak a film as you repeatedly call it. How exactly did it offend you? Do tell, I am really curious.
(Victor replies)
This is not all that easy to explain. There are things that we feel immediately, but it takes long time to explain clearly.Perhaps here I shall borrow from Nabokov. In his lectures on Russian literature he tried once to explain to the American students the meaning of the word "poshlost'". There is no equivalent word in English, and it is a VERY important word, as I am sure you know (although due to your rather short term in Russia you perhaps have not had enough chance to trully absorb it - I am guessing here...). That word has many flavors, and the most pedestrian translation would be perhaps just "poor taste", but it is much more than that, of course.
Anyway, Nabokov struggles with that definition for at least a couple of hours. And he too mentions that it is easier to feel than to relate certain things. Needless to say, I am no Nabokov.
So in the nutshell the film is "poshlyi". Very...
I started watching it actually expecting to love it, because so many good words have been spent on it in the press and by some people whom I actually respect. But very quickly my reaction started being that of severe irritation. It is the same irritation at being taken for a fool that I experience when looking at certain artist's work, the ones done by throwing paint from a balcony on the canvas. We all know the name of that highly respected "artist".
In almost every film there will be scenes where you cringe and say to yourself: "I wish that one was not there!" In this one it was scene after scene that left that sensation in me. All the while being done very professionally. Perhaps the most irritating scene was the one where the hero undresses the young girl. I though it was absolutely tasteless, all the irony and satyre of that film not helping it at all. As you know, I am not a prude.
It is that kind of unique "poshlost'" that I think only exists in certain American films of the later years (decades?). At least I don't recall seeing it in any other country's films - but of course my exposure to those is perhaps restricted. In that respect it is, as I said before, VERY American. Unfortunately so.
Since you are willing to dig deeper into that subject, I would strongly recommend that you find that lecture and read it - it is extremely interesting. I believe it was one of the lectures on literature he gave in American, but I could check on that for more detail maybe over today's lunch break.Anyway, indeed this is a very common and powerful word in Russian locution, and I miss not having it here. Often I am surprised it doesn't exist, as the need for it IS there.
But going back to the film, I don't feel like repeating the same arguments, and as I said, I was predisposed to like it. But its means were primitive and oversimplified. The subject of obsession is as old as the world itself, and there have been many wonderful films dealing with it in the world cinema.
Sure, if it's in english, I'll bite.Please reply with the reference.
We have it at home and it IS in English.I think it is one of the two on the bottom, not sure which one.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/102-4963024-6052120
I really loved the original sounding score for that movie (gamelan and marimba with 5 string bass and tabla? Genius!). Some sections didn't have the dark forboding quality of the music matched up to the scene (for example, Ricky and Jane in Ricky's room watching the "bag video"), and you begin to think "why the hell is this music so dark right now", but by the end of the movie, it finally makes sense- very dark indeed!I still get chills just thinking about the "trouble" Lester Burnham could have gotten into with Angela Hayes in that living room- and as a result, I can't listen to Annie Lennox's version of "don't let it bring you down" without thinking of dark rainy nights. This movie left a very emotional impression on me!
A very well done film, IMHO! Damn the detractors! I know what I like!
Cheers,
Dman
PS- I just finished watching "The Bone Collector"- anothe great one, IMHO!
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