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I'm an audiophile first w/ decent sound but wife wants bigger picture than 31". I have seen some 50-60" rear projections sets. Hitachi makes some good ones it seems for $3-4k. Toshiba and Sony (53"?) make some that I am considering. Samsung seems to be a best value. The new Hitachis (53sWX10B?) (I saw the ~60" but may not need that big for about 12' away) seem good and have auto convergence adjust I guess. I see mention here of projection also, is that just a lower quality space and weight saver? Mostly I would watch DVDs and TV. Are there any general recommendations of brands? I guess nobody will sell just a monitor so I have to still pay for audio sections and tuners, etc.? I don't know if the $3000+ stuff is worth the extra compared to say the ~$2k Samsungs or something? I saw the Pioneer elite and and $6k Sony stuff and it definately is not 50% better than the <$4k stuff from what I saw. The reviews on audioreview.com of the Pioneer SD 533HD5 make it sound like a good buy. I am only considering the 16:9s and I am guessing that auto convergence is valuable even though it doesn't seem like it would be a big deal to me to manual do < 100 spot once a year (I was told that the Hitachi does nearly 300 spots automatically which sounds accurate if it really works). Can you comment on some of this or give me some more guidance?
Thanks,
Brian.
I am thinking that even to
Follow Ups:
Dear Brian,A couple of years ago i became dissatisfied with a standard TV and as i was going to DVD i wanted a decent sized picture.
I looked at rear projection TV and front projection TV with CRT ,LCD, DPL, and sought advice from a variety of sources.
LCD and DPL are small and light and convenient but the picture just doesnt cut it.
Rear projection TV's make an enormous difference to the size of your room relative to picture size, also i have not seen a great set up on one and they have to be viewed from close to midline of screen to see an undistorted picture. They are also heavy to move around.
So I went down the route of a 2nd hand Barco 600 data grade 6" tubed CRT. I use a 6 ft screen and i was extremely happy with this. I lie i am still very happy with the picture . But a friend bought a 2nd hand Barco 808 data grade which is absolutely amazing,8" tubes. If i had the money this is what i would buy.
I believe that in the good ole us of a that Barco are sold under the Runco brand name.Before you buy anything look at a good front projection CRT .
They are glorious.
How big do you want your screen? Another friend has a Barco 801s and has a 13ft screen. It is like being in a small cinema and the picture is great.
that is my 3 cents worth.
regards david
Do the Barco CRTs cost <$5k? My price limit would be $2-6k I think at most.
My screen size will be no more than about 60" if that since I have the Magnepan 1.6 speakers setup in a stereo first system so the TV will fit between (and behind) them.
By great coincidence, I did see a $5k Sanyo LCD projector last night that showed much detaill due to size, but also much graininess or something. I have been wondering if front projectors get better as the screen gets smaller?
Thanks,
Brian.
Dear Brian.I believe that here in the uk the prices for standard BARCO's are:
Cine 6 £6000.00
Cine 7 £8000.00
Cine 8 £15000.00
A full house Cine 8 with all the goodies costs approx £24,000.00
So that is why i bought secondhand.A good 808 s data/graphics grade is approx £4,500.00.
I have no idea on prices in US.
regards david
You need to do a more careful comparison. There is a huge difference between the Pioneer Elite, Sony XBR, and Mitsubishi Diamond Vision rear projection units compared to the lower priced ( <$4K) equipment.The higher priced ones have line doublers, 3:2 pulldown detection, finer pitch screens equating to a wider angle of view and less "grain" in the picture. The Pioneer has an ambient light detection circuit that automatically adjusts the picture to room light levels, etc. etc.
You may not notice the difference unless you compare each with different sources: off-air NTSC reception, DVD, and satellite. Make sure that all of the controls are centered (brightness, contrast, color, sharpness) and that the color temperature is set a 6500K. You then WILL see differences between manufacturers and between different models.
The two Mitsubishi models I looked at had bright pictures, but the color cast was slightly magenta. When corrected (green added), this caused color shifts in the shadows (green) while the midtones & highlights were neutral. The Hitachi's were neutral, had good dynamic range (dark to light), but I thought the screen pitch was too large - resulting in a grainy picture and the angle of view being narrow. The dealer only had one Sony unit, and I don't think it was an exemplary example from that manufacturer as we could never get it setup (converged) correctly. No other electronics store where I live had one - so I could not get a good demonstration.
The Pioneer had the finest pitch screen, and greatest dynamic range, although its picture did not seem as bright as the Mitsubishi. However, the Pioneer had the best line doubler, best translation of 4:3 material to 16:9 format, and most natural color. It also did the best with DVD material (movies).
You need to more carefully "audition" the units with different source material just like you would do with an amplifier or speakers. Make sure everything is set "neutral." This is extremely important as most units are setup for the showroom - brightness all the way up and color temperature at 9K so that they look as bright, contrasty & flashy as possible. When set correctly, you will see the difference.
***Make sure that all of the controls are centered (brightness, contrast, color, sharpness)***Why would he want to do that? The contrast will still be set way too high.
In my experience, (30 years in the video industry, 5 video patents) centering the level controls on all displays being compared gives a good median starting point. In effect, you need to "level the playing field." Also, I have not found the contrast to be "set way too high" as this is really dependent upon ambient light conditions.It is nearly impossible to evaluate pictures equally if the individual units are not started in their "null position." IF you could feed a test signal (such as SMPTE color bars) equally to all units being tested, then you could individually adjust the sets to their "best picture" reproduction level. However, in my experience, commercial electronic sales outlets do not have this capability - and if they did, the sales staff would not understand how to use the bars to adjust the picture (contrast/brightness first, then color).
Given all of the "ifs" I've listed - starting with all controls centered seems to me to be a reasonable starting point - then again that's just my opinion. If you disagree, I would suggest that YOU give a better methodology.
you're saying about the comparisons makes sense, but I've never experienced a contrast control at mid-point that wasn't set too high.
What does your experience count for? Not much...
Tennessee pig farmer. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!
Does the non-Elite one have the 3:2 pulldown? Is it not as fine a pitch as the Elite? Does one or both of these have automatic convergence alignment? The Pioneer web site is not clear; I could download the manuals later. I think that they both have line doublers.
So, I think that you are saying that the Pioneer is better than the $4k Hitachis?
Thanks,
Brian
I do not know the specifications of the non-Elite products and did not compare the non-Elite products to the Elite for screen differences. The Elite product does not have automatic convergence it has a 60 point cross-hatch pattern that is manually adjusted. This is not difficult to do, and once converged it should not require reconvergence unless the set is physically moved. By that I mean not just rolled out on its casters from a position to access the inputs/outputs, but actually picked up & transported to a different location.The Elite unit that I purchased required very, very minimal convergence adjustment after being shipped from the manufacturer to the electronic store's regional warehouse (with unknown intermediate stops), further transportation (500 miles) from the warehouse to the store, and then from the store to my house. I would expect any of the manufacturers'high-end products to be equally as stable.
As far as the Pioneer being "better" than the $4K Hitachis, for my requirements - yes - but perhaps not for your requirements. "Better" is a value judgement based on individual needs, tastes, and budget.
The Hitachi is a very good product. Between it and the Mitsubishi, I probably would have chosen the Hitachi. But, I have people that will be sitting off the center line axis at times, and if you do a "walk around" of the screens (start at an oblique angle at one side about 10-feet out from the screen, and walk to a matching angle at the other side of the screen) you will see that the Pioneer brightness level is much more even through this test, and brighter at the off-angles than the Hitachi.
This met my needs. My personal taste was that the picture on the Pioneer seemed to be more saturated with better dynamics (more detail in the shadows and, simultaneously, in the highlights). I have found that much like ears with audio equipment, everyone one seems to have an individual "eye" when it comes to video pictures and color reproduction. My advice is that you should look carefully and pick the one that looks best to your eye, and meets your needs and budget requirements. I would also buy one that is 16:9 format if you plan on using it a lot for DVD's - once you see movies in that format at your house, you can't conceive of how you ever watched them pan-and-scan on 4:3.
In my case, I went from a Sony XBR^2 to the Pioneer Elite. It is difficult to match the quality of that tube with a rear screen system, but in my estimation, the Pioneer Elite is very close - I'm satisfied.
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