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In Reply to: Impressions of Surround Sound... posted by Estes on December 29, 2001 at 17:37:10:
been there, done thatfirst let me say that if you already have nice bass response from your main stereo pair you definitely do not want to get a sub.
second: center channel is a total waste, it's most certainly a step backwards.
third: rear channels might be worth the trouble if: 1) they are small and unobtrusive, and 2) you can't tell if they are "working"
Then again, if you are a "13-year-old boy", the target market for hollywood blockbuster crap laden with car-crashes, guns, helicopters and explosions, you probably would like the incessant "boom boom boom" of a sub. And if you like to watch movies from a viewing angle of say, 60 degrees off center, and you don't have a balance control on the preamp, you probably would like a center channel.
Seriously, for almost all good films, a decent audiophile stereo pair properly set-up is as good as it gets.
Where I was: 5 Snell series D driven by Proceed Amp2 + Amp3 and Velodyne HTS18 sub for involuntary bowel movements.
Where I am: Snell series D x 2 driven by McCormack 0.5 DNA Rev. A.
the bass from the 8" acoustic suspension drivers in the Snells is much more pleasing than that from the 18" 1200watt Velo, and the imaging from the stereo pair is so good you can hardly tell it's not surround.
but, you'll probably have to go the whole way around the surround sound maze before you learn this, as I've done, twice (I'm pretty stupid).
the good news is you can pick-up all your subs and surround processors and satellites on the used market from idiots like me, who ought to know better...I'm stupid, but I'm definitely not alone.
Follow Ups:
hi
audio without surround 5.1 = vedio without colors
I don't doubt that the Velodyne HGS-18 didn't sound good. I haven't heard a sub that big ever that sounded good.My ACI Titan II (12") is another story. I wouldn't live with out, for music AND HT.
Robert
My guess is you just didn't get everything calibrated correctly.Your system will likely not provide balanced DD/DTS sound (without a center channel and downconverted to 2-channel) for more than one person who is seated in the sweet spot.
But, if you are the only person that will listen to the system, then it may very well satisfy you.
My experience is very different as I like to view movies with friends, even though I use this combo system more than 90% of the time for 2-channel music.
In my case movies with 5.1 DD or DTS sound (for more than one viewer)have center focused dialog at all seating locations and a more realistic soundscape than is possible with just a stereo pair of speakers.bstan
I came to surround from a purist audio beginning, and spend many hours tweaking and adjusting the surround gear in the video room. I've changed/upgraded equiptment several times over the years, and use acoustic treatments with SPL meters and spectrum analizers.Clearly, you've never heard the Audio Physic Virgos in a proper set-up, as a stand-alone stereo pair. I swear to God, you will piss your pants when you hear them dialed-in.
They do pin-point surround sound far better and much more realistically than any surround system I've ever heard. And yes, in answer to your question, they can place localized sound BEHIND you, as well as far to the sides, and move it all around and over your head.
Unbelievable? Yes, that's exactly my reaction every time I hear it.
Don't get me wrong, as I'm not sitting in your room listening to your system, but I've never heard a 5.1 DVD movie soundscape correctly articulated from a stereo pair of speakers in any of the highend dealer's rooms I've been in over the last 6 years. Even had the opportunity to attend a demonstration of stereo and multiple surround-sound technologies at Dolby Laboratories in San Francisco. Their listening theater was designed for the absolute best sound - cost no object. Big-Big difference between stereo and DD 5.1.My Dynaudio Contour 2.8 mains (with the Confidence series Esotar tweeter) still give me more goosebumps than most speaker setups I've ever listened to. I haven't heard any speakers that make me want to change (including a session with the Audio Physic Virgos).
Yes, I to also spent many years obsessing with stereo setups, but have finally realized a pretty good 2-channel music/HT combination.
I also spent enormous amounts of time reading about acoustic theory (F. Alton Everest) and then using ETF RTA software and a calibrated microphone to acoustically tune my listening room for both stereo and 5.1 channel HT. I do use the Audio Physic speaker setup method - speakers on one long wall (3-4' out), listening position on the other long wall (12-18" out).
bstan
ok you know of what you speak...I suppose the problem is in my head...perhaps 5.1 for film is better than a stereo pair, but for me, it's not worth the time, the trouble, and the expense. My audio closet is now full of gear (my hovercraft is full of eels).
and I concur with the other poster who says the big Velo is perhaps too much by half (I haven't located it outside the house yet, perhaps that's the proper place for it...even with the gain approaching zero the damned thing lifts me off my fat ass every time there's a bump in the scene).
I just don't like the kind of movies that need DD to be "good".
I've heard the Dynos at Soundex, and they certainly are capable of the kind of acoustic alchemy I hear with the Virgos and the Merlins. There's something about the amazing execution of a insignificant-looking tweeter that makes or breaks an audiophile transducer.
with humble respects to your opinions,
dy/dx
Most of what we discuss is based on what we like. I think it's good to express opinions and give everyone a chance to understand viewpoints from many different perspectives.One of the DVDs I played the other night, a James Bond flick, "Never Say Never Again" has the worst audio I've ever heard period. Didn't sound good in any format.
bstan
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