 
|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
|
|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
84.169.255.23
In Reply to: RE: Sicko...Moore's best film... posted by RGA on July 12, 2007 at 16:40:50
Real hard indeed.
Moore means less: How radical documentary maker Michael Moore lost the plot
Michael Moore has transformed the documentary film, drawing huge audiences to tales of greed and hypocrisy. But his biographer, Roger Rapoport, believes that there's another, darker, less attractive side to this crusader
...Elsewhere, Moore's methods and past work are under scrutiny while another film about Bush's last election campaign appears to have been placed firmly on the back-burner. Rumours abound, sparked by the man himself, that he may now decide to abandon documentaries to write romantic comedies and straight dramatic features (with a slice of wry) instead. Where else is there left for Moore to go?
The long gestation period for Sicko, Moore's paintball-style attack on the American health-care system, reflects parallel changes in his own life. Recognising the irony of an overweight director on a bad diet preaching healthy living, Moore decided to heal himself. He hired a personal trainer and began taking long walks. He also created the Traverse City Film Festival near his impressive home on Michigan's Torch Lake. As he personally reviewed entries, Moore also continued working on fictional screenplay ideas of his own.
This decision to create feature-length film dramas is curious, though, when you consider what happened to his one previous attempt. It was a $10m John Candy comedy called Canadian Bacon, and it cratered faster than a Flint, Michigan job at General Motors, the major employer in Moore's childhood home-town. Now, it looks like the Big Bopper of ambush journalism wants to turn to romantic comedies and other dramas that will win over the audiences that skip his non-stop assaults on the super-rich, warmongers, gun-slinging vigilantes and heartless drug companies out to grind the faces of the poor. It's as if the sheriff has decided to get out of Dodge City and take up macramé.
Wouldn't want the right wings' favorite debate ploy to permeate this forum.
And this forum has lots of stupid white men. Moore's next project is rumored to be another documentary and if the man wants to make a comedy that is the best way to lampoon a government ANYWAY. Canadian Bacon was not a very good movie but the message was still alive in there. A government trying to take attention away from it's corrupt behavior so the president decides to wage war on Canada -- those terrorists. "besides most Americans don;t know where Canada is on the map" so they're the perfect terrorist organization. The idea on paper was quite good IMO.
he is the worst self named prostitute around...
Iraq and national health care.
He's a visionary, clever and fair.
C´mon Tin don´t be blind! He is a lousy film maker, who is so untrue to journalism as one can be, that do include that he does not have some points.
His films are made for the political fanatical.
deep concerns (among Americans).
We have massive corporate brainwashing in this country and Moore is the sole voice of dissent.
He's been right.
Now, care to argue his facts or the major one that he was right about Iraq?
Guess what: he's more than right about our crappy health care system, too.
Not even the republicans will argue about the health care (well except the rich ones).
I would argue that Bill Maher is also doing his part. He is doing the show Real Time with Bill Maher on HBO. Bill does not have the draw of a Michael Moore.
There is no point in preaching to the brainwashed. If people still support bush and the War in Iraq - then you may as well try and discuss the theory of relativity with someone with an IQ half that of Forest Gump!
Critical thinking requires one ignore the person and read the information being presented. What I see is personal attacks on the man's weight, appearance, the way he speaks but not what he says, writes, thinks.
Maher is more potently against religion and people who do not use reasoned arguments. So religious people will tend to be offended by Maher and his Libertarian views. But there is a "simplify everything to black and white" policy in right wing religious thinking. Saddam Bad Kill. Socialism Bad Stop.
Reading Michael Moore opposition website forums the strawman arguments are endless. Reading some writer for Slate Christopher something it is quite apparent that attacking the man and using lots of discrediting remarks is easier than actually building coherent arguments against the truth.
The scary thing for the part of the population that truly is intelligent enough not to believe the likes of Bush is that they are in the minority.
I find it funny that the same people who hate Moore because he stumbles over some words in an interview with no real preparation as to what he will be asked are the same people who vote for the likes of Bush who when he knows all the questions in advance and has a teleprompter to read from speaks so much worse than your average 9 year old girl from Britain -- but like I said --perhaps Mike needs to do a film about the education system. A stupid population continues to support right wing religious Pat Robertson folk though so education is WAY down the list of something to improve.
He was right about Irak?
No he was not.
What is right is the missmanagement of the after war.
I am more than happy that SH and his sons are gone for ever.
And what is if at some point SH would have get if not killed weapons of MD?
Gazing his own people was no problem for him was it not.
But all this is forgotten....
The fact is RM is a pretentious brain washer.
Now for his last film...I never will see it...
It is a miss opportunity to be intelligent & critical and some kind of humour.
Look at Gore!
He look like a teeny whoppy, almost a teen fan.
Peinlich.
He was right about Irak?
I don't know if he was right about IRAK but he was right about IRAQ. Don't worry like most Bush devotees - Bush couldn't find it on the map or spell it either. Since it was America who installed Saddam Hussein as dictator of Iraq in the first place -- you could say America was to blame for putting a power hungry killer in charge and gassing hundreds of thousands of people. (right wing government too BTW)
"What is right is the missmanagement of the after war."
Ohh yeah and the fact that it is the WRONG country - but again Geographically inept. Iraq, Afghanistan those darn Arabs what's the difference right?
"I am more than happy that SH and his sons are gone for ever."
I agree - no one is going to miss them - but there is a bigger picture here that needs to be addressed. It sets a terrible precedence to ignore the UN and attack sovereign nations without "hard" evidence. Especially when they KNEW that it was Bin Laden in Afghanistan. Canada and several other countries went with the US to get Bin Laden and try to kill/capture the 9/11 orchestrator. Canada and others rightly said piss off when it was time to go to Iraq.
And before you say anything about Hussein let's see how evil the new guy is when he becomes dictator. Sooner or later the US will have to leave.
"And what is if at some point SH would have get if not killed weapons of MD?
Gazing his own people was no problem for him was it not."
George Bush letting 18,000 American die every year for not having social healthcare does not seem to bother him much. 8 years times 18,000 by the time he is through not to mention the American soldiers fighting in a war they should not have been in. Quite the tally.
"But all this is forgotten."
Yes it seems the Bush supporters have forgotten.
In German it is Irak so sorry to have you made sweat about this word...
And how many did Clinton let die, not having the strengh to change anything.
You can not think and talk lihe this.
This absurd.
But the fact remain. Moore is a terrible director if one at all.
And his films are not worth the celluloid they are print on.
"In German it is Irak so sorry to have you made sweat about this word...
Ahh the Germans talking about what to do with dictators -- that's a laugh.
"And how many did Clinton let die, not having the strengh to change anything."
Clinton had no direct reason to attack Hussein. Neither did Bush. Bush has set a precedence. He can take you from your bed and have you shot whether you live in Germany or anywhere else under the guise of "war on terror." He can arrest any American citizen for no cause and without a warrant all in the name of "terrorism." And he can do it with ZERO evidence or proof. DO you think this is a good thing?
And why is it Clinton's job? It is the job of the people of Iraq to overthrow their own leaders if they don't like them. One can not impose a civil war.
"But the fact remain. Moore is a terrible director if one at all."
Yeah all those snootie awards he wins might say otherwise - the vast majority of people Like Michael Moore and his films...including and most importantly his fellow directors. You know peers - people who direct movies for a living.
What movie have you made? What degree from an established university do you hold that would make me believe you have any insight on film making.
The only sentance of yours I would like to catch on is: The Germans talking about....
So you think a German because as such should not talk about dictactors?
You must be an extreme Right wing something....
A humor. Of course that's the line you go after...
You have presented no case against Sicko or Michael Moore.
But then I should remember to:
"never get into a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent."
had it only had the resolve?
Britain, too, should have maintained its control over India. Spain never should have "conceded" S. and C. America. Nor should Portugal have carelessly let its African colonies slip away.
Patrick, you're old.
History has left you stumbling around your crusty library, port in hand, muttering about the Ancient Regime.
Moore was absolutely correct about Iraq. See the film again. All of it FACTUAL.
You know, I suspect, little or nothing about American health care.
Gore is correct about global warming, of course.
The future has impaled you like a cow on the front of a speeding train.
What could one possibly respond to that?
OH!
MUH....
you are either 13 years old or you just think like one -- and that insults some of the 13 year olds I know.
*
g
But is he a director?
No he is not. A liar and a polemist.
he's a "liar and a polemist", but that's like saying you're not a biped, you're a dishwasher and cat burglar.
As for the 'lying', I'll agree there's a certain amount of, umm, "artistic license" involved. Some of which is dependent on a point of view as to it's veracity. But any sane person would admit that any deceit in '9-11', say, is a thimble full compared to the reservoir of lies that the Bush administration perpetuated to get us into this dumb-ass war. Or that the business decisions of GM (Roger and Me) turned a large part of Flint into an urban wasteland. So, taken as a whole, his films express an opinion (his)but one which is generally factual.
And then of course there are the lies spouted to the conservative sheep, mindlessly taken as gospel even though they can be verified or disproved by something as simple as watching the damn movie (see 37th vs. 39th below, which somehow, for some mystifying reason, has become the cornerstone of the conservative's issues with this film)
Oddly, Michael Moore is certainly no film or ideological hero of mine. His attack interview, in 'Columbine', of Charlton Heston (who at that point was a doddering, pants-up-to-his-nipples old man, gracious enough to invite Moore and his crew into his house unannounced) was just creepy, like beating up on a homeless person. And does he really think he can embarrass someone like Phil Knight, who has apparently modeled his business career on Gordon Geko? Just ludicrous grandstanding.
Note, though, that my criticisms are with his film making. I'm not trying to pick apart every word for some misrepresentation that will somehow, if allowed to remain unchecked, send the Republic into a Death Spiral from which we'll never recover. Is the conservative ideology really so weak? Maybe so....
vaya con dios
Which is way too good for my words but no for my thinkink and telling.
You think a little series of lies are ok?
For a journalist?
No way.
MM is an egocentric maniac and that shine through his disgracefull movies, his last one will makes its millions without my participation as I am sick of his way of highjacking populist causes.
For his behaviour, like you describe it with C. Heston, and a well publicised " accident ", that would do it for me for ever.
And a total lack of humour to round it up, no thanks.
FYI, he's less of a journalist than an editorialist. In his documentaries Moore uses caustic irony to convey personally held views about corruption within our society; it's based upon a preponderance of selectively gathered evidence rather than simply reporting the news as he finds it.
In that regard, Michael Moore's films tend to be semi-documentary in concept, biased albeit based upon facts. His films are manipulative in the same way that news opinion editors make profound observations extolling the virtues of social change; moreover, they're extrapolations, based upon sufficient facts to reach an honest conclusion.
BTW, documentary filmmakers don't have to follow strict news media guidelines when seeking information for their films, they just have to be relatively accurate with the facts in order to build a compassionate case.
Some folks like what he does; others don't, but I kind of doubt that folks will lose much sleep over the fact that you seem to be a cheerleader for the latter category. ;0)
AuPh
Since we spoke about him last time...
I think he has an inflated ego, that he is a liar and that his talent as a director are in the minimal range, the only postive is that he is able to find out Themes that, would have he been a serious and humorous person with a sense of proportion he could have been real satiric.
When I saw his first film back then I felt not at ease for one second, and in the end the portraits he describe are not other than his very own.
I think he is despictable.
Yes, semi- fictious....
Folks will also not worry also too much about you...In this we can shake hand....
As usual Anti-Moore diatribes focus on minutia rather than the big picture. Whether the number is $5000.00 or $6000.00 is not really the point since both are so vastly higher than $251 which both agree on.
CNN and Republican monkeys keep talking about "but those countries pay taxes for medical" And we don't want Socialist programs because socialism is communism. Which it's not but that's another brain washed mantra of the right.
Americans pay taxes for things like libraries roads, fire departments, police, road construction etc. All of these are socialist programs. Without socialism there would be NO society at all. In fact it was a Socialist program that got the United States out of the great depression and a capitalistic one that put them there in the first place.
Moore's response to CNN
"THAT'S the only thing we should be talking about. How profit and greed are killing our fellow Americans. How profit and private insurance have to be removed from our health care system. CNN should join me in asking why our 9/11 rescue workers aren't receiving medical care. Somebody should send a crew to Canada to find out why they live longer than we do, and why no Canadian has ever gone bankrupt because of medical bills. And all of the media should start saying how much it costs to go to a doctor in these other top industrialized countries: Nothing. Zip. It's FREE. Don't patronize Americans by saying, "Well, it's not free -- they pay for it with taxes!" Yes, we know that. Just like we know that we drive down a city street for FREE -- even though we paid for that street with our taxes. The street is FREE, the book at the library is FREE, if your house catches on fire, the fire department will come and put it out for FREE, and if someone snatches your purse, the police officer will chase down the culprit and bring your purse back to you -- AND HE WON'T CHARGE YOU A DIME FROM THAT PURSE!
These are all free services, collectively socialized and paid for with our tax dollars. To argue that health care -- a life and death issue for many -- should not be considered in the same league is ludicrous and archaic. And trust me, once you add up what you pay for out-of-pocket in premiums, deductibles, co-pays, overpriced medicines, and treatments that aren't covered (not to mention all the other things we pay for like college education, day care and other services that many countries provide for at little or no cost), we, as Americans, are paying far more than the Canadians or Brits or French are paying in taxes. We just don't call these things taxes, but that's exactly what they are." http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/index.php?messageDate=2007-07-17
The bottom line is simple. If you have a heart attack in Canada you won;t go bankrupt. In the US you are looking at $100,000 bill. For rich people $100,000 is like $3.00 to me but to most people $100,000 is bankruptcy. I can tell you this -- the amount of EXTRA taxes you pay(over what you pay in the United States) in any Socialized country over your entire lifetime would not come close to $100,000.00.
Americans still pay relatively high income tax and state taxes and property taxes -- the difference is the money is not going to keeping you alive. So if you're rich you like it the way it is -- after all you got yours screw everyone else.
Interestingly the right wing goes after Moore for his money and nice home but unlike MOST of the rich elitists he was not born with a silver spoon up his ass and puts himself on the firing line. That is what a TRUE patriot does -- not the folks who wrap themselves in the flag and blow the "you're with us or against us" routine. These are the same people who would rat out their neighbors in Nazi Germany.
Indeed, The right wing Republican establishment learned a LOT from history -- they learned a lot from Joseph Goebbels.
Well, at least it a post without heat against myself.
A sensible post.
z
I could not use his faux leather pant as a sign of mourning the lost of Victor, here...
I do hope a momentary lost...
I always thought your's & Victor's performances here were au natural, bare on class and substance. ;0)
AuPh
Poor little thing..
You're the feller mourning his momentary lost[sic], whatever that's supposed to mean. If you're going to sing his praises, then please try to NOT be so sensitive about it.
Ciao,
AuPh
nt
Nothing I said in the prior post related to homosexuality except in your imagination. I was speaking metaphorically. You DO know what a metaphor is, don't you, m'boy? ;0)
AuPh
You don´t need a link for that one, do you?
I suppose you were raised in a surrounding were it was cool to be an homophope, now how da fit with your pseudo Left being?
BTW, mon ami, one can't help but notice that Stale, in response to RGA above, tore you and Clark a new anus (now it matches the size of your egos).FTR, you both come off looking like world class jerks (insensitive bastards) for pre-judging Sicko based on your personal dislike of Moore, but that shouldn't surprise anyone. So-called "compassionate conservatives" who get their kicks shooting the messenger when they don't like the message are a dime a dozen, and they tend to be the same breed of arrogant self-aggrandizing bottom feeder the world over!
Sad, very sad. Tsk, tsk.
Regards,
AuPh
It seems that the heat that was always present in our exchanges has coll down.
Why is this?
A question of habit?
Or a certain understanding of the other...
Well that can not go on, as becoming like an old couple is the boring of all bored, if I may say so, and I does.
So try a new little music, that could help to wake me up...
I feel not in the mood today for reading or having to discuss MM further.
But as an old friend, one with fantasy, you could...answer for me...
;0)
As I can´t hardly remember any post at all from you without editing.
I never show it up because Iwas too gentleman for it.
Now that I am becoming an asshole...
Trust me, it isn't that becoming. ;^D
AuPh
nt
...bite my ass. But maybe that's just me, for whom they're always gunning. We'll see how you fare in this skirmish.
clark
NT
s
busy putting out the fire on his pants.
nt
.
I just read his autobiography not a long time ago, and it was marvellous! Read it, if you did not...
* No, not the under aged....But also not the over rippen one.
where I believe (correct if wrong) that he wrote Lolita . He had quite the brilliant mind, and pursued many, many interests.
Thanks for the tip on the autobiography-I'll be sure to read it.
Autres Rivages: souvenirs, was the French title, here is I think the English title.
One of the best read you can have!
Right now I am readin Graham Greene autobio. which has also a lot of charm.
I was not sure if he wrote it in Lausanne or Geneve, but after reading the post down below well Oregon...
- http://www.amazon.com/Speak-Memory-Penguin-Modern-Classics/dp/0141183225/ref=pd_bbs_sr_12/104-1093302-8906352?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1184449757&sr=8-12 (Open in New Window)
Robert Caro's Lyndon Johnson biography- Master of the Senate. May or may not hold any interest for Europeans, but Caro is a fastidious chronicler, in this case of a man whose person was far more 'grey' than black and white, and, also, of a certain political period in American history. Interesting read, and in the end will be 4 (large!) volumes.
Frankly, way more 'Lyndon Johnson' than I need, but once I start, I feel an obligation to finish.
Far more grey than B & W...I like that.
As for finishing what have start to read, I know this feeling, awful, I resent the same, even if I crooked myself then, not reading very carefully and speeding as much I can..
There are very few books that I put away, closing them for ever..
We may be both wrong having too much respect of the written word..
This is very interesting Powermatic! I had no idea.
Google is our friend:http://www.libraries.psu.edu/nabokov/dbjas1.htm
Rod
book larnin' over here yonder in the Mossy State. WooHoo! I'm a hah skool gradu-ate!
(-:
.
.
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors:
Top of Page ]
[ Contact Us ]
[ Support/Wish List ]
[ Copyright © 2025, Audio Asylum, all rights reserved ]
