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I walked into another minefield by suggesting that BArry Lyndon was one of the best five fimls in history. Now he challenged me to identify the other four.First, this is a rather stimulating challenge, bringing back many a memory. It is always enjoyable to page a great book.
But it also shows the near impossibility of any such task. Barry was easy - no matter whether you want fifty best, or twenty, or ten or five - it would be there. Three best? Yes. Two? Most likely. THE best? Well, possibly.
But how about the other four?
Some choices would be easy to make. As I mentally go around the globe, Bergman stands there as a monument. There must be at least one of his works. For the sort list of contenders for that one spot on the FIVE, I would have: The Seventh Seal (My wife's nomination), Persona (my pick) and Wild Strawberries. Just to get moving, let's me pick the Persona (OK, I'll buy my wife something nice...).
Italy deserves not one, but two spots. With so much to choose from the first decision is trivial - The Bicycle Thief. And the second one goes to one of the Fellini's greats. La Strada, Nights of Kabiria or 8 1/2... they all draw you in like a wirlpool. But we cantake just one... OK, La Strada it is.
With two more spots remaining, Mother Russia looks tempting. Eisenstein... Tarkovsky...several others... as much as I love some of their work, I would have to pass on that country... as those don't quite measure up to the trully great ones. The best I could do there would be the Mirror... but it still falls behind the top group.
So we keep going. Spain... Bunuel is a serious contender, and I would nominate hsi rather obscure Avenging Angel... but same story as with Russia - not quite there.
Germany... Germany... so many good ones, but none in that class.
France!!!!!!!! How many spots? I would love to give it two, but with the rest of the world still waiting, one she gets.
The competition is super-stiff. Rules of the Game. The Forbidden Games. Many others. Let's pick the Rules of the game and keep going.
It is that fifth spot that creates real problem. It is tempting to put Kurosawa in there, he is almost there, but..........
So, how about leaving that last one for now?
Shocking, I would say. With so many great ones, how come one spot remains empty? Perhaps this is just fitting.
Follow Ups:
would have to go to either "Rashomon" or "Citizen Kane" (of course, I'm a Yank, so go figure).Or maybe The Leopoard, or maybe - wait, this is hard, isn't it?
Great list, BTW, couldn't argue too much with any of your selections.
I gave at the office!
victor, i am curious why you personally pick the avenging angel over bunuel's other films, and barry lyndon over kubrick's other films. I would think that most people would pick, for these directors, bell de jour or discrete charm, and 2001, strangelove or clockwork orange.you know, i always look forward to reading roger ebert's bi-weekly feature "great movie" (linked below). no groundbreaking insights for you maybe, but i've always liked how ebert nicely conveys his excitement for the older classics without ever sounding snotty, academic or obscure.
I think Angel represents a more raw talent, is more original in most respects. I love his later works great deal, but as they became more polished, they lost some of that raw discovery charm.Barry Lyndon is different, because it is hard choice between it and my other favorite - The Paths of Glory. It is perhaps the most artistic film or all. I never liked the 2001, Strangelove let the satire get the best of the director, and Orange is overrated, I think, because it is based too heavily on the story. When the story dominates, the storytelling takes the back seat. But it is still a masterpiece, make no mistake about it.
I looked at the ebert list, I am not impressed. He seems to like a lot of films I would only consider just average. For instance, how could The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp make it there? I mean - on the same list with an M? Give me a break.
This is the problem with large lists, that the range also ends up wide, in essence watering down the super qualities of the top ones.
I think the lists should be kept to no more than 20, better 10 or so, as usually the level difference between the first twenty and the second can ge large.
From the Sight & Sound "Ten Greatest Films of All Time" 2002 Critic's Poll (September 2002, see www.bfi.org.uk/topten/):Roger Ebert (Alphabetical order)
Aguirre, Wrath of God (Herzog)
Apocalypse Now (Coppola)
Citizen Kane (Welles)
Dekalog (Kieslowski)
La Dolce Vita (Fellini)
The General (Keaton)
Raging Bull (Scorsese)
2001: A Space Odyssey (Kubrick)
Tokyo Story (Ozu)
Vertigo (Hitchcock)You may not agree with every choice, but I don't find anything terribly divergent on this list. No zingers, choices all drawn from the usual suspects. You should see some of the lists. One iconoclast thinks The Exorcist is the greatest movie ever made, LOL!
Ebert's 100 list is really meant to re-examine and draw attention to "good" films (if not all of them "great") that may be overlooked in the current morass of mind numbing drivel at the local multiplex. He is perfectly content to praise a well-made effort whose chief virtue is entertainment. Most films on the list, if not all masterpieces, are well crafted, thoughtful enterprises. I think, despite the fact that I strongly disagree with Ebert on certain films (Blue Velvet, LOTR), he communicates a genuine enthusiasm for movies to an audience that otherwise might not discover such pleasures on their own. If he does omit some great ones - Rules of the Game, Tokyo Story - I still forgive him. They'll show up eventually. Ebert's irrelevant to me, but on the whole, he does more good than harm...unlike certain other people I could name...
...If only someone would shoot Roeper...
Oh, and Victor, I DO think The Life & Death of Colonel Blimp is a great film.
Harmonia, A big thanks for the link to the BFI site.In his Q&A column, Ebert said that his Sight & Sound list diverges slightly from his true list. The point of the poll was to make a master list of top films off the individual lists. In some cases, Ebert substituted what he knew would be more obvious choices among the other critics rather than 'throw away' the vote. In his books he's usually got a documentary and a couple offbeat picks in his top 10 lists. (I think those alternate choices would make Victor cringe even more - they're bound to be in his third tier!)
I wonder if his choices for the Great Movies feature has changed over time based on the feedback he gets from people. I mean, when he reviews The Apu Trilogy, who the hell is going to say that they checked it out after reading his column? As opposed to writing up Goodfellas. (I once wrote reviews for my school paper highlighting upcoming films at the film society. If I recommended an obscure film, it made no difference. But if I picked something overlooked that was in English and in color, a people would comment that they tried it out based on my suggestion.) Plus Ebert writes for the Sun Times, not the Chicago Tribune. It's a different audience (like the New York Post versus the New York Times).
Having read or seen Ebert for so long, I feel like I understand what he looks for in movies. He's one of the few reviewers whose reviews are archived online, and he seems to write on everthing that comes out. In other words, agree or disagree with his opinion, I have a good sense of whether I'll like a new movie after reading his review - much more than asking a colleague at work whether a movie is good. To me, the value of reading his reviews is that consistency and knowing where the opinion is coming from.
Roeper escapes me. Like Siskel, he'll dismiss films for no principled reason. I remember him talking about The Mexican on their show. Roeper basically said: Since this movie stars Brad and Julia, I expected to see a lot of Brad and Julia onscreen together. The movie puts them in very few scenes together, so it wasn't the movie I expected to see. So I didn't like it. Siskel sometimes reviewed movies like that too.
I think most of the critics participating in the S&S poll, if not all of them, are rather self-conscious in their selections, there's a feeling of compiling a list for the ages. The directors seem much more frank about their choices.I used to do a fair bit of reviewing. In picking the "greatest of all time", I think it's fairly typical that one would select films that one thought were outstanding in all their respects and had withstood the test of time, even if they weren't one's very favorite masterpieces. So many masterpieces, so little time.
But the polls are fun to peruse and they do provoke discussion.
Siskel was a master of intellectual precocity and eloquence compared to Roeper. Roeper's review of LOTR basically dismissed it - everyone knew that the only people who would be interested in the film were Tolkien geeks who consisted entirely of nerdy young male persons who'd never had a date, why would anyone else wanna see movie like that? (Gee, Roeper therby dismisses C.S. Lewis, W.H. Auden, 30 million married women, 50 million baby boomers who read it and wore Frodo lives buttons, plus countless children and old people.) Roeper is more about promoting and entertaining himself than he is concerned about offering any remotely perceptive insights into cinema.
Someone shoot him...please.
about his consistency. That's what I find with magazine reviewers (Wine Spectator, Stereophile, Et Al) I may disagree with what they think is good, but as long as they provide accurate descriptions, and are consistent, I can glean what I need to know. Hell, there are even a few people on AA that are like that.I don't read too many movie reviews, I usually take the plunge or listen to feedback from friends, but the same thing goes with them, too.
I gave at the office!
..and this list proves it. There are only two films I would consider aong the best twenty - Kane and La Dolce Vita, the rest I would put in the second tier.***Oh, and Victor, I DO think The Life & Death of Colonel Blimp is a great film.
Now you have done it! I'll go and watch the Mask.
I perused his list not long ago, and kept thinking to myself - "how can he obviously recognize the greatness of some of these films, and put other so-so, at best flicks on there?" 2 answers- he's trying to please everyone, avoiding controversy, and he's letting his personal affection for some films override his objective discernment of quality. I mean "Spinal Tap"? I LOVE Spinal Tap - one of the most hilarious films ever - but a GREAT movie?
I gave at the office!
point taken on diluting the true greats.ebert's feature is not so much a strict "best of" list as an ongoing series that covers whatever he happens to be checking out at the time. (for me, there's only so much to be said for creating a "definitive" list - what's more interesting is seeing how other people think differently about something you love or hate.)
often his choices coincide with dvd releases, theatrical revivals or recent remakes, or the passing of a certain actor or director - he's got an audience to write for.
it's also an exercise in reexamining or reconsidering films years later, like a second chance to review the film. sometimes he realizes that a movie's not as good as he remembered it being; other times new things strike him in light of changing times, new movies or his age. His comments on La Dolce Vita:
"When I saw 'La Dolce Vita' in 1960, I was an adolescent for whom 'the sweet life' represented everything I dreamed of: sin, exotic European glamour, the weary romance of the cynical newspaperman. When I saw it again, around 1970, I was living in a version of Marcello's world; Chicago's North Avenue was not the Via Veneto, but at 3 a.m. the denizens were just as colorful, and I was about Marcello's age.
"When I saw the movie around 1980, Marcello was the same age, but I was 10 years older, had stopped drinking, and saw him not as a role model but as a victim, condemned to an endless search for happiness that could never be found, not that way. By 1991, when I analyzed the film a frame at a time at the University of Colorado, Marcello seemed younger still, and while I had once admired and then criticized him, now I pitied and loved him. And when I saw the movie right after Mastroianni died, I thought that Fellini and Marcello had taken a moment of discovery and made it immortal. There may be no such thing as the sweet life. But it is necessary to find that out for yourself."
also of interest is the linked list of siskel and ebert's annual top ten lists dating back to 1969.
No doubts, it is in this class.
"Gruppo di Famiglia in Interno" (arguably one of Burt LancasterŽs best roles)?: If you are there for elegance, and for some deep, beautifully written reflection on social changes and the decadence of an aristocratic world, this one, and "Il Gatopardo", are priceless!There are some great American ones, and Welles deserves being there: either "Kane", or "The Magnificent Ambersons", or that wonderful small (in length) jewel, "An Immortal Story". Welles did more than anybody else to change the filmic language, and to make of cinema a really mature form of art: even with Hearst and his ilk vetoing him as much as they could, he was still able to film "The Lady from Shanghai", and "Thirst of Evil", both frequent referents for later film makers. What Bergman is to introspection, and to bringing to the screen the thorning doubts tormenting human soul, Welles is (and even more) to cinema itself: a true genius, able to create, almost from scratch, powerful stories, and to tell them in their own language, much of which he created by himself. Cinema was changed once and for ever, by his powerful mastery touch.
And I still think HustonŽs "The Dead" to be one of the greatest.
Hard contest, eh man?
Regards
BF
Welles and Hitch, both copied the german impressionists filmmakers.
And yes The Dead is the most triste & melancolique & poetic with a warmth that freeze your soul.
Not only we are lucky to be alive but we got the good fortune to have this marvel.
Thanks John, for the legacy.
think it was near perfection in all aspects. (Ever seen a photo of the real Pu Yi?)
nt
Gruppo di Famiglia is tremendous, I love it. But I don't rate it as high as La Strada... just in my personal view. And the Leopard is great too. Kinda related would be La famiglia with Vitorio Gassman.But really, if I wanted the next best in Italian movies I would nominat the Antonioni's "Professione: reporter", as simply the best of his works.
But Visconti... so many great ones, my head is spinning... but remember, we are defining the five best ever.
Hard contest indeed, but enjoyable too!
Ah, and a couple more. Forgot the name of one about the Napoleon officer striking a friendship with a leopard... and of course, Karakter... simply unforgettable.
Vic,Which Kurosawa?
There are times when I watch "Yojimbo" that I like it more than "The Seven Samurai" or "High and Low," or even "Rashomon".
Rashomon is probably his best film, but I must confess that "The Bad Sleep Well" is my sleeper for Kurosawa. There is something very honest about that film.
What about "Birth of a Nation," "Stagecoach," or Glen or Glenda"?
BTW...I caught up on what is playing right now and everything sucked.
Die Another Day - putrid, loud, stupid, idiotic
HP&TCOFS - Kids like this shit?
Jackass - hysterical if you can stomach it, granted it does prove that we're dead meat as a nation if these guys are cool.
8 Mile - okay, not great, too long, The Real Slim Shady does love himself.
Punch Drunk Love - for Adam Sandler, is a monumental step past puberty.If not for HT, there would be nothing to watch.
I picked up VHS copies of the Entebbe Films (all 3) and my wife is groaning that I am going to make her watch them.
Regards to the wife.
Tosh
Good one.
He is in the same league as Bergman..ALL his works are worth.
My favorite is, The Seven...
Did the Sayeret have time to tape the operation?
Any documentaries you would recommend?
Honestly, movies with Bronson and Dreyfuss aren't convincing.
I love Rashomon, but I think his best was Dreams.Any chance of getting copies of the Entebbe tapes? I would gladly pay for tapes and shipping.
I thought long and hard. One way to look at building that list would be if I were selecting just five films to be left in a time capsule, to give someone hundreds of years later good idea about our civilization.I can't think of a film better rouding off that list than My Fair Lady. Beautiful and witty, bringing out our good nature.
So there.
Choosing the five best films is an impossible task... your original post proves this. But your challenge of leaving five great films in a time capsule is a simply wonderful idea, one I've never heard of before.In the interest of journalistic correctness I would have to leave five documentries:
1. Shoah (interviews with holocaust victims)
2. Through the Wire (story of US govt's inhumane treatment of female political prisoners - yes, we have some)
3. Olympia - The Olympic Games of Berlin 1936 (by Leni Riefenstahl)
4. The Wonderful, horrible life of Leni Riefenstahl (just to balance the above)
5. Hoop Dreams (story of two basketball hopefuls)Bonus nominees: Microcosmos (the real "bugs life"), Theremin (the weird get weirder), Crumb (and even weirder again).
your list doesn't make room for the maysles brothers (salesman), errol morris (heaven's gate), michael moore (roger and me), koyaanitqatsi and woodstock. :-(the first three are big markers on the timeline of documentary filmmaking. land of no bread and nanook of the north are cornerstones as well, but i think the others remain very "watchable" for a contemporary audience.
koyaanitqatsi spawned its own genre of non-fiction films. woodstock's there because it's just us music lovers here.
i think we're gonna need a bigger time capsule.
.
I am familiar with numbers 4 and 5 on your list, 4 is tremendous 5 left me somewhat cold. I have seen scenes from #3. I have probably seen the $1, but not sure about the title. You are right, a film about the Holocaust is a must on a list like that. I have several I loved, would need to recall their titles.Perhaps the documentaries should get their own time capsule?
x
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