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Mates,As I always get irritable when the Summer slug of shite Summer movies and my friends in the Biz thoughts lightly turn to Box Office, I have decided to announce the Bambi B Lifetime Annoyance Awards.
These are awards designed to point the finger of disgust and show the backside of disapproval to those in the entertainment world that consistently annoy me the most.
Categories and awards:
Most Annoying Actors Whose Mere Mention Will Keep Me from Watching or Throw a Brick at the Screen:
Jerry Lewis- clearly an all-time No. 1
Tom Cruise- gives a bad name to mono-browed goofballs
Kevin Costner- a plank of pine with the ego of Brazilian rosewood
Liza Minelli
Maurice Chavalier- should have been arrested for "Thank Heavens for Little Girls" alone
Leonardo DiCrapio- sorry DiCaprio
Dan Ackroyd- not funny since he was an SNL conehead
Julia Roberts- another plank of wood- at $4 million a board foot
Robin Williams
Jim Carrey
Eddie Murphy
Pee-Wee Herman
Arnold Schwarzenegger- but not too bad as long as he sticks to semi-sentient robots with Austrian accents
Nicole Kidman
Mel Gibson
Kenneth Branaugh- braaaauggghhhh...Special: Never Understood the Fame and the Career Award:
Al Jolson- except for his appearance, personality, singing, and acting he was great
Special: Wacked out Old Bag That Should be Retired Award:
Joan Rivers
Starting to Get Annoyed by:
Brad Pitt- always the same character
George Clooney- see above
Winona Ryder-
Will Smith- that ego
Pierce Brosnan- a dim bulb under bright lightsSpecial: Tired of the Constantly Refreshed Artifical "Legend" Award:
James Dean
Marilyn Monroe- like much of her , but ill with new revelations of how Bobby Kennedy had her killed to cover up ..etc
Judy Garland
Princess Di- really an entertainment figure more than anything else, given an apotheosis like the above simply for dying youngSpecial: Wacked out Old Fart That Should be Retired Award:
Regis Philbin
Special: Wacked out Old Fart That Should be Expelled from the Country Award:
Rupert Murdoch
Director for Whom Dante's Hell Hath Not a Low Enough Level:
Chris Columbus- "Harry's Chamber Pot of Secrets"- should be magically transformed back into blank film
Whoever the hell is doing Star Wars now
Whoever the hell is doing Batman nowEditing that May Cause Comas:
Batmans after Burton's
Matrix ReloadedGuessing that It's Incredibly Annoying Only from the Trailers:
League of Extraordinary Gentlemen
Van Helsing- can already see this for an editing award too
Harry Potter Three: "Harry Potter and The Smug, Oblivious Asshole in the Pile of CG Effects"Guessing that It Would be Incredibly Annoying When They Happen Award:
Movies made from TV series- coming soon is "I Dream of Jeannie"
Bleedin' movies from comic book characters- next it'll be "Scrooge McDuck Does Dallas"
Any future Star Wars- note how the Princess Leia earmuff hair had to be introduced in Epsode 2 to start to match up with Episode 4 of 1979? Ironically this puddle of projectile regurgitation is called the "Attack of the Clones"
Any future Jurassic Park
Any future Matrix- the first one was a great concept and interesting, the second smells like No. 2.
Movies where a guy poses as a girl to be on a team or to meet girls- how many of these do we need?
Movies where a kid gets special powers- and then takes revenge on the school bully
Movies where kids are spies and action heroes
Movies where the action hero is really a male character but the target 13 years old boys audience now insists on cleavage with their mayhem (e.g., Lara Croft). Watch for "Guns N' Bosoms" the next 20 years.O.K. I feel ready for Summer now.
Cheers,
Bambi B
Follow Ups:
n
albee33,This Summer (I hope!):
"Mozart" by Solomon- I really loved his earlier Beethoven biography
Hawkings- "A Brief history of Time"- as I'm shopping for a new watch
various P.G. Wodehouse- "The World of Mr. Mulliner" for one
"Never at Rest" -Westfall - a biography of Newton
"The Poetics of Music"- Stravinsky. I know this book of Stravinsky's lectures, but would like to read it in the original French
Marcel Proust: "A la recherche du temps perdu"- time to finally do this one or at least "Swann"!What are you reading?
Cheers,
Bambi B
n
albee33,I wonder if we suffer from the same syndrome? I am an amazingly slow reader, as I often get so stimulated in thought, my mind wonders off to arguing or extending the reading material in my own way - literary chaos. A large non-fiction book can take me a week to get through. I also make the mistake of reading 3 or 4 simultaneously so they end up lasting forever. I remember a friend mentioning the only way out of this was to write furiously in the margins so as to kind of take charge over the book and move on! The worst for me is poetry by Rilke*** which I really love, as I keep making my own translations- I almost never like poetry in translation- though it's tough with exotics like Rumi and Issa.
To the theme of Roy Rogers: "Happy pages to you, until we meet again"..
Cheers,
Bambi B
***"Strange violin, are you following me?
How could you not like Ackroyd in Neighbors or Grosse Point Blank?Chris
Chris Garrett,Yes, I did like Grosse Pointe- it's just such a good premise of the hit man going to his high school reunion. And Ackroyd as the twitchy competitor hit man was better than usual. The scene ordering breakfast with the Glocks under the table was memorable and very funny. His role in the first Ghostbusters suited him too. Sorry, did not see "Neighbors".
I think Ackroyd can be funny, but he needs exactly the right kind of writing for his style or for me the annoynace factor goes up very, very, quickly.
I'm sorry to say, once an actor gets on my list, I tend to ignore them a long time- even when they do something worthwhile. I meant to add Bill Muray to my "Getting Annoying" award list, but then he pulled off "Lost in Translation" which put him into a new category (I haven;t seen it however).
Cheers,
Bambi B
Neighbors is not as dark or thematic as the book, but is really quite entertaining. Ackroyd and Belushi switch roles in an unsettling swan song for the latter. This is probably the best I've ever seen from Ackroyd. The annoyance factor might be there for you, though.Bill Murray has come a long way. I like his work with Wes Anderson in Rushmore and The Royal Tenebaums , and I really look forward to their upcoming The Life Aquatic . Murray was the best thing about Lost in Translation .
Well it was Scarlett of course!
Akroyd can zing good BB was full of good ones.Grosse Point was funny.
Jerry Lewis- appeals to the child in all of us...Buddy Love is a great character...The Patsy and The Bell-Boy are also favorites of mine...I just can't discount the man's dedication to humanitarian efforts...Tom Cruise- This guy is a big question mark for me....He has been great in some films- Risky Business, Rainman and Jerry Maguire and then there are the others...Last Samurai being the most recent example...
Liza Minnelli- One question, have you ever seen her perform live? Until you have,you have not witnessed a true entertainer in action...
Maurice Chevalier- LOL... I totally agree...his singing voice was like fingernails on a chalkboard...I'd add Yves Montand to that list as well I've never understood the appeal of either...Much less how Marilyn could have boinked him!
Dan Ackroyd- I agree with the exception of Ghostbusters....
Nicole Kidman- She has oversaturated the screen in the last few years...But she was great in The Others and she is beautiful to look at...
Mel Gibson- I really liked The Passion, and usually enjoy him in whatever project he takes on..
Al Jolson- LOL...What was the big deal?
Joan Rivers- It is appropriate that she now sells jewelry on QVC..LOL...she used to be funny when she would fill-in for Carson.
James Dean- a legend why? Four or five screen roles and he's a legend? Talk about creating the Hollywood myth...
Marilyn Monroe- When I was a boy, I loved her... The vulnerability, girlish quality and that voice.... She had the most luminous skin ever photographed IMHO....
Judy Garland- What a tragic life...Although I never saw her perform live, I have a feeling that Liza is a mere shadow for the original...I have seen her TV show many times and if that is any indication of her performances, WOW is all I have to say...not to mention the screen legacy she left behind.
Batman movies- It has been all down-hill since Burton and Keaton exited the franchise...(but I'll still go see the new one)
Star Wars- I was in the very first preview audience for the first film back in the 70's...WOW! That was a great cinema night...#2 was good as well but again all down hill since then...Again I'll see the last one as who doesn't what to see Anakin become Darth? George Lucas should have stayed with it while he was fresh....
TWB,Thank you for your comments.
A couple of responses:
Lewis: there is no doubt we are dealing with a smart, complex personality and as you mention, and he used his fame for very good causes. But, even as a tiny child, thre was something that annoyed me- perhaps it's becuase smart people imitating idiots seemed skewed- I don't know. Somewhere in this thread, I mentioned a client who knew Lewis well over 25 years who made the remarkable remark that Buddy Love was the closest character to Lewis' real life character!
Cruise: Yes, as in all rules there are serious exceptions and I acknowledge Cruise as a hard worker. But then there is one of the most annoying movies I can think of, "Top Gun" to return me to despair.
Liza: I don't doubt her abilities to put on a show for a minute and I think that her best movie role was "Cabaret" where she gets to do that throughout. But, Liza in the movies and as a husband beating celebrity grates on me, especially her maudlin sentimentality.
Years ago a client had Tony Bennett perform at their Christmas party while they were renting Charo's (I forgot her on the list)house and though I never liked that style, Bennett was such a wonderful personal performer I was bowled over. As you suggest, seeing someone in person can make all the difference. I also never liked Barbara Streisand, but I met her in a restaurant in Malibu (through the interior deigner we were both using) and she was completely different in person than her media fueled persona is presented.
Chevalier: Same as for Jolson, I think that he just stayed tuned to a broad old-fashioned music hall style that is not on my frequency. And I believe Patrick that he did well in certian circumstances. But with Jolson, I just can't conceive of any period in which he would be entertaining. that half-speaking-half singing style- well your chalkboard analogy is the best one.
James Dean: He did have a great inner angst that made "Rebel" interesting- and what thinking person didn't object to 50's American Cold war conformity? And he was quite amazing in "Giant" where he went to shite kicker to Citizen Kane. But, the legend building is just too much- as you say from 4 movies. I have often passed the place on HWY 46 in Central California where he met his end and I like to pass the big granite monument at 120MPH as a tribute.
Marilyn: Again many great roles and a wonderful persona, but enough speculation and obsession already- it's been 42 years! if seh were alive today she would be 78- that's food for thought!
I knew an architect in Los Angeles years ago that had also owned a kind of high end interior design store and Monroe bought a big Persian rug from him only a couple of months before her death. The architect told me she seemed so low and listless that he took her to dinner to try anfd cheers her up. He jokingly proposed to her and she accepted in a way he thought was semi-serious!
Garland: Yes, I feel for her tragedy too though I don't know the details. I am not by any means a fan of the Rooney movies, and her last years when she gained weght and lost her colour were pitiful to watch. But she had great entertainer's instincts- and early on the voice had quite a power.
Star Wars: Yes, of course eventually I'll see it to see how it all gets matched up to Episode 4, but if everyone stands around in rooms gabbing about contrived Galactic politics as in Episode 2, I'll wait for it to appear on the Television machine. Also, Anarkin in II goes backk to find his mother years later. If his mother was living all those years as a slave- why hadn't he come back earlier and used his powers to free her? He had to ask the flying junk seller where hshe was sold to! Mum abuse! The next one had better be good or Lucas' principle filmed legacy will be in the rubbish bin- and he'll only have a few billion Dollars to show for all that effort.
Batman too had better find a new track. The constant change of the Batman actor is in my opinion on a great mistake as the viewer can't be expected to care about just whoever shows up in the rubber suit. The Val Kilmer Robin episode was high on my annoying list too- my attorney went on about this railed against what he characterized as thinly supressed homosexuality, but I think that was just his pique with the whole thing. I was just simultaneously bored and had no sympatico with anybody present. I have to admit I haven't seen the entire movie. At least the Burton version had some interest to the character and was not a new violent image from a new POV every 1/8th second. I would enjoy a new Batman that had some of the insight and personlity that the first Spiderman had. Superheroes shown learning and growing into resposibility and a larger humanity could inspire us rather than just assualt us with over-edited CG violence.
There is hope for Hollywood, if they could take their eyes off the bottom line for three seconds.
Cheers,
Bambi B
all the conservatives from the Outside will rally to your cause....I'm glad to hear that you had a good experience with her though...I've always felt that she gets a bad rap due to her politics and her endless quest for perfection. But her talent is unmistakable. I'm probably one of a few men who think that she is really beautiful...I'm also glad to see that she is taking a new tact with her movie career and returning to some comedy roles as she is currently filming the sequel to "Meet The Parents" entitled "Meet the Fokkers" in which she and Dustin Hoffman play Ben Stiller's parents...Now THAT should be funny!
I wonder what he will add or retract....Will be fun.
Patrick,Yes, I was waiting/ hoping for a few wonderful obscure ones. "Ah, you forgot to mention the most obvious of them all- Alexdranovavich Vassily Schmolenzinski- now there's someone that should have been pushed over a cliff on June 14, 1961!" "And how about Hans-Dieter vonSheissestucke? A complete waste in that Herzog series on the Mad Carpenter of Leipzig."
And then he'll have several good reasons why..
Salut,
Bam
Well as my friend Victor is on the road I feel entitle to answer for him, and I am quite confident that he will more that complete my short anotation.No, I would not have mention Alexdranovavitch Vassily Schmolenzinsky ( by the way you seem to fully ignore his more famous brother" Neumanovitch the great " who only make one film " What is worring U ".
As for the German impressionism period, I would have hope that you would have included the relationship between Hans- Dieter and Wolf- the mad- Kinsky. But here too your list did fail, and hence is incomplete.
For more incompetent notice wait until he is back.
Very funny!
Bambi, if I may, I'd like to latch onto your excellent Awards post for a few grievences of my own:1. Non-American actors with fake American accents-playing the parts of Americans. Examples abound, but most notably:
Albert Finney and Ewan McGregor in the recent Big Fish (2 in one movie! and...both doing a "southern" accent! Decent film, tho).
Nicole Kidman in everything of late; ditto N.Watts.
I know that talent (and a big name at the box office) is required for modern day movie making, but did I miss a meeting...are there no American actors with talent/box office appeal for these parts? Kidman in the Civil War? C'mon. One exception works for me...Russell Crowe...for some reason, and it is probably A Dangerous Mind, doesn't bother me.
2. Waaaaay to old actors playing roles/characters younger than themselves. Worst offender: My beloved Clint Eastwood, who will be 73 this year, played the 45 year old Terry McCaleb in Blood Work recently; he also played a lothario of a journalist/reporter a few years ago in a forgetable film that I can't remember the name of...Clnt's character actually seduces his editor's (Denis Leary) much younger wife...Clint takes off his shirt in this one, and it ain't pretty. Stay with directing, Clint...or characters your own age.
3. Two of a kind with one name each: Roseanne and Madonna.
Oh, please, Great God of all things entertainment... don't let either of these creatures grace (?) the silver screen ever again...or the tv screen, for that matter. Ditto the getting-nastier-by-the-day Rosie O'Donnell.4. Somebody please shoot that irratating no-talent Andy Dick, making it impossible for him to appear in anything ever again.
5. Let the phenom of "reality television" die the slow painful death it deserves...my only fear is that the networks will come up with someting even more crass and disgusting. There is probably no chance of ever seeing new and well done television dramas in the future, but I hold out hope for more like The West Wing, Sopranos, and...eh, well, I'll have to think of some others.
You're right, Bambi, I feel better! thanks for the rant.
all the best,
Gary
Gary,Interesting point about accents- as a person from "out of town" myself, who is often questioned on my accent, it is a favourite subject of mine.
The thing is, anybody paying attention will be sensitive to their own language(s) and odd accents are noticeable. I have an American friend in Italy who speaks 5 languages and in her German I can somtimes hear tiny American inflections. But, it would take a native speaker to detect that in her French or Italian, the point being that the sensitivity to accents varies according to the listener's languages.
It is always difficult when actors play parts that use foreign accents. In the old Hollywood studio system days, there was a sort of tier arrangement of A, B, C, lists- Bette Davis and Jimmy Stewart would be A, then Robert Young or Ronald Reagan, then character actors and western sidekicks- that kind of thing. When a director was given a movie to do, the actors came from the appropriate tier and that was it, if the script was Arthurian England, Wallace Beery might have to be Sir Lancelot. Some actors would make some inflections, but often there was little attempt to really imitate the accent. There were dialogue coaches, but Bette Davis as Queen Elizabeth had only the inflection level and her handmaidens were more English sounding. In the '30's anyway, there was a common kind of affectation in which many actors had that gave them a slight English sound- and I think this was supposed to introduce "classiness". "Dinner at Eight" 1933 is packed with this effect- the Barrymore's, Dressler and etc. and then Beery and Burke were using kind of crude American accents to contrast and show them up as crass parvenu's. Depression era escapism I think to show these glamourous sourroundings and refined sounding people. Today, it seems a bit silly.
Today, there is much more emphasis on good accents to help the suspension of disbelief. Some actors have played many roles with quite good accents- like Meryl Streep, "Sophie's Choice", and others a bit less successful- Ryder in "Bram Stoker's Dracula".
As I am almost always noticing Americans who do or try to do English, I was interested in your comments about foreigners who try to do Americans. My American friends don't seems as sensitive to Americans doinf English, but in the converse situation it comes up more often. and this gives Americans a taste of the distracting nature of inconsistent accents. When there is a slip back to the native accent it shows and I for one start to kind of wait for the next little error- distracting.
Sometimes there are foreigners who do American speech well- or well enough not to distract and I think a good early example was V. Leigh as Scarlett in GWTW. Her "fiddle-dee-dee" was quite good. She wisely didn't go into a real Georgia drawl, and seeing the movie the first time as a teenager, I didn't notice or think about her as English. She would have had an excuse too as her father O'Hara had a medium Irish accent.
More recently, I think a good job was done by Helena Bonham-Carter in "Mighty Aphrodite". Because of this sensitivity, I really listened to her accent to try and catch her out, but she's good! There was even a little (uneccesary) backup to explain B-C's accent in which her mother is introduced at a party and she is very English. But, I thought B-C's American was one of the best I've heard in a long while. But, others are not so convincing and I think I've heard a variable American with Micheal Gambon a couple of times. Branagh is in that medium range too- or do you think his American is poor?
Say, Patrick, if you're here, as you are French in Germany and know English as well, what are your thoughts on foreigners doing your languages? Notez-vous particulierement cet effet?
Cheers,
Bambi B
Those of us who live in the New England states in the U.S., particularly those in the Boston area, are driven crazy by Hollywood's inability to get the local accent right. The only actors who can do it are those from here, like Ben Affleck and Matt Damon. The rest shouldn't even try.
rico,A friend who knew my interest in languages showed me a copy of "Yankee" magazine from 1938. There was a long article in that issue in which the writer laments that the advent of radio was quickly destroying the distinct New England accent- "It is now (1938) already impossible to distinguish the difference in someone from Danbury from a native of New Haven." Those cities are what, about 150 miles apart?
Anf of course, the slide into homogenity continues all over. A friend in England has for years been telling me how accents in England are becoming incereasingly homogenised and serious Americanisms were creeping in. He was quite angry that, "Now we (the English) call them KIDS!" And that is instead of saying "children". When living in Cambridge, England in the 70's, a boatbuilder native of the City told me could easily tell the difference between a native of Cambridge and someone from Madingley or Cherry Hinton, both of which are only 2 or 3 miles away. I wonder if that is true today?
The French have been especially protective of their language for a long while. For years I thought this was a case of egocentricity and hubris, but now I can feel the sensation of loss of community and identiity that happens when mass media and constant population movement is turning speech patterns into a dog's dinner. Certainly, the accents in differnt parts of France seem still distinct and Swiss or Canadian French is quite different sounding.
Modern life will just inevitably lead to these neutralised accents: As I was born in Libya of US naturalised Dutch and English parents, lived briefly in Oklahoma, schooled in England, studied a bit of French and German, and then 20+ years working in Los Angeles I suppose I'm throwing a really complicated spanner into the works on my own since I had a radio programme for 6 years. Nobody could say where I had come from from my voice! Perhaps only Henry Higgins could have sorted that one!
Interesting and a bit charming that there are still so many people that take pride - and notice- regional accents.
Thinking about it now, I didn't notice very strong attempts to create accents in "Mystic River" and that movie was comsidered so very strong in creating an authentic atmosphere. I would assume that the accent of that working class neighbourhood should have some special speech patterns. Did you see it and what is your opinion of Penn and Co. in that one?
And am I correct that you feel that Damon and Affleck carried off proper Bostonian in "Good Will Hunting?"
Cheers,
Bambi B
1. Danbury and New Haven are less than 50 miles apart.2. I very much enjoyed "Mystic River" (both book and movie) and
most of the actors wisely did not attempt the accent, except for
Kevin Bacon, whose attempt was noble but erratic.3. It's been a while since I saw "Good Will Hunting" so I can't say
for sure but I don't recall being bothered by them so perhaps
unconciously I accepted them.
Bambi,I agree, some non-American actors do a great job with the various American accents...and Ken Branugh did a nice job of "speaking American" in Dead Again, at least as far as I remember.
Good point on Vivian Leigh in GWTW...considering the time this was made, she is credible as a Southern Belle Femme Fatale. I still find it interesting that with "the search for Scarlet" that took place, auditioning so many actresses, they pick a Brit who must learn to speak in a way that is so unnatural to her. I suppose history proves my argument baseless...I can't imagine anyone else as Scarlet at this point. I believe it was Paulette Goddard who was the leading contender after Vivien...GWTW would have suffered (imo) with this change.
I guess my major complaint is that with something like 10,000 SAG members continually out of work, the same "top twenty" actors are continually cast in the big movies, regardless of suitability...Julia Roberts and Nicole Kidman being the prime examples. Which brings me back to the film Big Fish...the American director (Tim Burton) cast two British actors (Albert Finney and Ewan McGregor) to portray the younger and old versions of a gentlemen from the American South...yea, much as I love Finney, I found this more than a bit distracting.
Ah, I'm tilting at windmills here, I'm sure this practice will continue and probably increase in frequency in the future, regardless of how I feel.
Aain, great post/Awards list!
All the best,
Gary
I agree with every single comment except for Nicole Kidman.
rico,Thanks, and it's nice to clear the air before it gets hot and we're all watching those two great actors Kerry and Bush in their epic struggle to revive the famous A&C "Who's on first" routine!
With Kidman, she is wonderful to look at, but I just don't find her memorable and she is seen so often. I think that over-exposure alone may put an annoynace factor form me where it is not strictly deserved. I remember a few years when the excellent Anthony Hopkins was just in every single damn thing that came along and I was on the verge of asking for an explanation of why we couldn't see someone else sometimes. This happened with Winona Ryder too. There was a high point of this when "Bram Stoker's Dracula" came out with both Hopkins and Ryder. It certainly registered on the annoyance meter at the time. With so many wonderful English actors why use an American with an English accent came out of a cereal box?
But as it's you commenting, I would welcome suggestions of something with Kidman to take her off the list?
Cheers,
Bambi B
Does she try too hard, as Patrick suggests? Maybe, but in this film, that's what her character is all about, too. Somehow, she is very convincing playing a total bitch. I don't mean that as an insult, either... it's a good flick.Ah yes, Winona Ryder in DRACULA... I gave up right at the moment when she says, in that godawful fake accent, "Shall I cawl the p'leece?"
djprobed
I think her absolute best is in 1995's "To Die For". I also liked her in "Dead Calm". She' not bad in "The Others". And I am one of the very few who admire Kubtick's "Eyes Wide Shut".Agree, however, on the overexposure. The one that was driving me nuts a few years ago was Helen Hunt, who seemed to be in EVERY movie that year.
Kidman just try to hard. It shows.
Good list! and I almost have to say yes to all, save for maurice Chevalier, but not of course for " Gigi " ( by the way I like little girls too...it just depend what is little in your understanding...Well me old goat, but a nice 20 years old little girl...hum...)
BUT for his roles under Lubitsch! It was the only and convincing work he ever made!
Patrick,I admit that most of my opinion of Chevalier was formed from his roles in English- which is not entirely fair, and his singing style which I just can't tolerate***. Also, I have a very low tolerance for musicals generally. Of course, he was also (unfairly to the degree) denounced in the US as a Nazi collaborator and I think I was affected by this long-standing judgment.
*** Pour des chansons populaires francaises, donnez-moi le Edith Piaff chaque fois!
Sincerement, je souhaite que j'aie compris la source de critique obsedante americaine etrange de tout francais. Sommes-nous reelement trop semblables?
I have seen some of Chevaliers's earlier work and I think that I just don't care for his very broad music hall style, which is exaggerated for the stage and seems old-fashioned rather than timeless.
As it's you saying it, I will take another look- and Lubitsch is always intriguing.
Salut,
Bam
And yes, I never did love him and feel and think the same. You know that he commid suicide.
But the Lubitsch period is good. Take a look at it. You will understand. Lubitsch took him and purified him, with Janette McDonald.....
Līidiotie ne connait pas de frontieres...
Brad Pitt always the same character? When?
Analog Scott,I meant to grade the awards a bit more precisely as to degree as some on the list are of course not so terrible and everyone on the list has done something(s) interesting or well.
And Brad pitt is not high on the annoynace factor.
But, I think there are sme actors that seem to always generate the same kind of energy regardless of the role. This is some kind of core personality that shows through in every part. I think Steve McQueen Jimmy Stewart, and Katherine Hepburn are other examples- and these poeple did amazin things within their limitations.
But, if this constant inner personality has any kind of negative to it, it certainly grates on me. This is the largely the same aspect that placed Cruise and Costner too, though they are in another category entirely from Pitt.
Lack of range is not necessarily bad for the career as it sets a signature style and if attractive can carry a career a long way.
Regarding Pitt, while I've enjoyed him sometimes- "Fight Club" for example, but I was more annoyed by "Seven Years in Tibet" and "Spy Game" and his character in "Ocean's Eleven" was just dull. Fortunately Julia Roberts was there and made Pitt's character a bit brighter by comparison.
The bad ones can tip the scales- as can over-exposure and any hints of cooler-than-thou. I am far from achieving coolosity but I can spot a poser from the distance betwen me and the movie screen. I'm moving towards the Will Smith and Eddie Murphy effect here.
Pitt, to me, is only satisying when he appears in well written roles that already suit his persona. Selecting peoper roles by actors is so critical. Mel Gibson, certainly in a lower circle of Hell than Pitt, also suffers from the mono-personality and Hamlet for example was a gross miscalulation in this way.
But, I'm always open and I would appreciate recommendations for Pitt's in a differnt range of character.
Cheers,
Bambi B
Interesting, I haven't seen any the movies you cited as examples of Brad Pitt's short comings. Maybe I am just missing the worst he has to offer. I think between Seven, True Romance ( all be it a small role), Legends of the fall, and The Mexican just to name some of his movies, one can find both a substantial range in his characters and substantial depth in those characters. I did see Troy and I did not like the movie or him in it. I'm not sure there was much he could have done to remedy that. The script was simply devoid of any humanity. He fought well. I think this was his focus and the focus of trhe film makers. To bad though. Jackie Chan already is light years ahead of them.It's too bad about Costner. He showed potential early in his career. His self absorbtion is all too painfully evident in everything he has done since No Way Out.
Tom Cruise. I think his celebraty status often makes people overlook his achievements. He has been quite good a number of times. Risky Business, Taps, Rainman, Born on the fourth of July, Jerry Maguire, The color of Money.
Not only that, but the same old bore.
You know the difference between a good actor and the one, bad, with a good script?
Most people can not see the difference.
Well, you could always try to just answer the question. You could also tell us what was bad about Brad pitt's acting in any of the following movies. Legends of the Fall, True Romance, The Mexican, 12 Monkeys or Seven. The characters he played in each of those movies were dinstictly different. Feel free to tell us what was objectively bad about any of those performances. You may not like his performances or him but that doesn't make for any universal truth about Brad Pitt or the art and craft of acting.
Did I say that MY opinion is universal truth? It is just AN opinion.
Maybe we are having a language issue that I was missing but you said this..."You know the difference between a good actor and the one, bad, with a good script?
Most people can not see the difference."Your reference to "good" and "bad" along with the allusion to "most people" and their inabilities to tell the difference does, to me, imply a claim over and above a personal opinion. There are objective measures of good and bad in any craft. Your post seemed to be addressing such a measure. I only wanted to discuss the merits as it pertains to Brad Pitt.
I was making an allusion in general and for Mr. Pitt. In art there is a subjective measure, made of experience and understanding.
But I am not certain I get your point.
"I was making an allusion in general and for Mr. Pitt."Yes and I was trying to discuss your assertion as it pertains to Brad Pitt. It seems you are not itnerested in discussing it.
"In art there is a subjective measure, made of experience and understanding."
Yes, there are elements to art that are subjective and elements that are objective. When one talks about likes and dislikes it is fair to presume one is talking about the subjective elements. When one talks about good and bad it is fair to assume one is discussing the objctive elements. You talked about "good actors" and "bad actors." They do exist objectively and that was what I was trying to discuss as it pertains to Brad Pitt.
"But I am not certain I get your point."Hopefully I have clarified it.
Of course I am always willing to discuss! But on the subject of Mr. Pitt, I would be push hard to have to say anything, as there not much to be said of.
He just is a marketing product. For me.
If you are willing to discuss then let's start with the roles he played in the movies I already mentioned. 12 Monkeys, Legends of the Fall, Seven, and True Romance. I have said that those movies show a substantial range in his characters and depth as well. Disagree? If so why?
This is a discussion Forum, so ... 12 Monkeys..Did he play in? I can only remember Bruce Willis in it...Legends of the fall? Oh yes vaguely, actually I saw it one time and a half, first I thought nice film, but then so idealised that I fall into a deep sleep, Ah yes Brad! Nice next door boy, but he ainīt no Robert Redford, even he try hard in this film.
Legends of the Fall....The same.
Seven. Too brutal and from the " Silence of the Lamb " vein.
True Romance? I remember ...But was it not Slater?
So, I hope you can take adose of irony, but the truth simmer behind this, of what I really think, you may not be happy with it, but to explain what I feel about him, I canīt do any better....and this is still ironic.
"This is a discussion Forum, so ... 12 Monkeys..Did he play in? I can only remember Bruce Willis in it...Legends of the fall? Oh yes vaguely, actually I saw it one time and a half, first I thought nice film, but then so idealised that I fall into a deep sleep, Ah yes Brad! Nice next door boy, but he ainīt no Robert Redford, even he try hard in this film."Funny, Robert Redford seemed to have nice things to say about him after directing him in A River runs through it. If we are going to discuss his performances you are going to have to pay attention to the movies when you watch them.
"Legends of the Fall....The same."The same what? Are you comparing his performance in Legends of the Fall to his performance in Legends of the Fall? I agree they were very similar.
"Seven. Too brutal and from the " Silence of the Lamb " vein."What does that have to do with the depth and range of his characters?
"True Romance? I remember ...But was it not Slater?"I guess you don't remember. Again, if we are going to discuss an actor's range and depth you are going to have to pay more attention to the movies you watch.
"So, I hope you can take adose of irony, but the truth simmer behind this, of what I really think, you may not be happy with it, but to explain what I feel about him, I canīt do any better....and this is still ironic."Your post was wet with irony. I can take it but it was a discussion I sought and it was a discussion you claimed you could participate in. Oh well.
I never said that he was not a nice guy, but a great actor he is not.
It was ironical of course! ( I watch the film I see.....)
Nothing to do. But Depth? None...But it was a nice thriller, I wonder how it would stand today, I do not think too good.
Donīt worry we will find something to discuss really.
"Donīt worry we will find something to discuss really."I tried many times now with no luck. I have my doubts.
at this forum, unless, of course, Universal Studios is involved. -AH
How about Jerry Lewis as Jerry Langford (essentially Johnny Carson) in The King of Comedy , with Robert De Niro and Sandra Bernhard? Apparently, Scorsese wanted to cast Carson himself, but was turned down. According to IMDB, Scorsese also considered Frank Sinatra and Dean Martin for the role.
ephemere,Yes, there are exceptions to every rule and Lewis as the set-upon talk show host in "The King of Comedy" did very well.
Carson would have been an interesting choice as he had probably lived every one of those situations except the kidnapping. How about Dick Cavett also? - not that he has any apparent acting ability.
I admit that the most satisfying portion though was when Sandra Bernhard's quirky trust fund character had Lewis' mouth - and whole body covered in duct tape. Were that this treatment had been occasionally applied in the previous 40 years..
"The K of C" is excellent all around. Even the role of the bar tender girlfriend (Diahnne Abbott) was well done.
The ambiguous ending- real or another Rupert Pupkin fantasy- was a great choice.
Cheers,
Bambi B
On most of this work he his just awfull.
Bambi,
Well, at the very least your award has a comprehensive list of catagories...my fave being the "wacked out old broad" section, awarded to Joanie Rivers...how this woman gets on television is beyond me...crude, rude, overated, overbearing, and offensive in the extreme (though all that surgery made her look better than ever, imo). JR's worst sins could be forgiven...if she were funny.
I've never thought Jerry Lewis was even slightly funny, but somehow he has lived long enough for me to forget
some of his "offenses" and to place him on the "icon" shelf. As John Huston (as Noah Cross in Chintown) said:
"Politicians, ugly buildings and old whores all get respectable if they last long enough."I couldn't agree more strong with your awards for DiCaprio Julia Roberts, etc...except Ken Branaugh??? What's he ever done to deserve the award (I'm actually asking, not defending him...I don't know his work that well).
My hope is that there is never another film made from a comic book or television show...who goes to see these things, anyway?
Dim bulb for Pierce Brosnan? Eh, okay, but doesn't that apply to many other pretty boy actors (especially B. Pitt)as well...I like Pierce, think he made a great James Bond, and congratlate him for being (imo) the best looking post-50 year old man working in films today. Pity about that latest film with J. Moore...but kudos for trying a comedy.
...and lastly, thank you for your Princess Di comments...I agree in the extreme, but have been shouted down many times on this subject, almost always by woman who have bought into this "artificial legend"...let her R.I.P.
Can you give out the awards at least quarterly...I enjoyed your choices.
All the best,
Gary
Gary,Thanks for the kind words. I don't like to concentrate on the negative too often, but it's awfully nice work to be able shovel a large pile done at once!
Yes, poor Rivers seems to be either heavily sedated or else the face lifts are so tight she can barely move her face. I'm sorry that someone that years ago was bright, creative, energetic, and funny but now is becoming actually repulsive. Has she become so arch and self-promoting that her friends or family can't tell her the truth- or she can't hear it?
Princess Di: Undoubtedly a nice person, but weak minded and confused in her princess role. For the Princess of Wales to die in a Parisian tunnel in a Mercedes with a discount Saudi gigilo does not indicate strong character on it's own account. She had a really unpleasant job, seeing Prince Charles almost every day and having his children required the almost unimaginable, but she sank to the occasion- so nebulous in personality she was a constant victim- and that's never too attractive. Yet, she dressed up and mugged for the cameras and the 10 year old girl level of the public decided she was their dream come true. If she hadn't died tragically and young, she would be largely forgotten- until she re-married. If she had married Dodo or whatever his name was, we would have had several weeks on the ring and three months on the dress.
Why are supposedly democratic Americans so obsessed with royalty?
Lewis is more than annoying but, as you suggest, interesting enough to follow as a phenomenon. I have never doubted his creativity, intellect, attention to detail, and energy but I could never decide who the target audience was supposed to be. It couldn't be children or adults!
I wa a little hesistant in awarding Branaugh, as he is not uniformly annoying. His job in "Shackleton" I think was his best as his depiction of Shackleton as a confident, determined man twho cared about the people under his command was very refined. But, this role was one that required a kind of command emotional restraint and this worked for him the way doing the Terminator robot worked for Schwarzenegger- low requirements.
But, Branaugh through some lack of selectivity in his roles has done enough other really annoying work to put him on the list.
It's that surprising lack of range that bothers me. He is such a stiff and he has two modes- either a droning, flat affect or does his artificial declamation mode. That's it as far as I can see- no signs of being able to do fear, love, envy, real anger, sadness. Plus when he does certain roles, his apparent smug self-opinion that he's a great actor makes the audience always congnizant that there is acting going on- I can't see past his struggle to mkae it look like fine acting.
And the force of this is most apparent with his Shakespeare. His oblivious ego with which he turns Shakespearian roles into TV superheroes. He doesn't seem to realize that Shakespeare did not write larger than life characters, life was always larger. I really hated his Henry V, and though droning, his iambic pentameter is good and he was comprehensible and articulate. But, under his Henry I don't think I would have been among those who "Shall think themselves accursed they were not here." I wish I hadn't even been in the cinema, much less Agincourt..
The other problem with Branaugh is that he he seems to take just any kind of role and became over-exposed.
On the personal side, his posturing during the Emma Thompson years that they were Olivier and Leigh was just funny.
Still, he's not a complete waste of time, but he needs to study enough that his personna does not appear studied and select his roles rather do eeverything with a paycheck. Perhaps he might watch Alan Bates as the butler in Gosford Park or anything ever done by Derek Jacobi- charcters not actors.
Cheers,
Bambi B
The analogy between Kenneth / Emma / Laurence / Vivian is of course, brillant and I am in big trouble with myself for NOT having think of that!
Absolutely agree word for word. This is brillant!
Jerry as Buddy Love? - AH.
AudioHead,The Buddy Love character became interesting to me. About 15 years ago I had a client who had known Jerry Lewis very well since the late 60s and indicated that his Buddy Love character was the closest Lewis ever came in movies to his actual personality. "Love" was a way for Lewis to kind of take revenge on the goofball roles, and the sinister calculating obnoxiousness, and self-absorbed hyper-ego was allowed to reign. The genuineness of those characteristics made Love his most 3-D role.
Lewis is not lacking intelligence, creativity, and showmanship but the annoyance factor is very close to 100%.
Cheers,
Bambi B
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