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I did repost eventually. go read.Oh AAT, did the French Navy ever do anything like putting 24 pounders on the Diamond Rock off Martinique? NO, course not.
Better gunners than the RN? ha ha har!
Their artillery was good, but I don't know if Gribaueval's reforms helped their navy.
And for Victor, every time Nappy's armies came up against Wellington, after Corunna at least, W either won or marched away. How many of his Marshal's failed in Spain? And the French were the better army? pish!
This whole Napoleon worship thing is just not the way all people, esp. those of a british background see it. He was very careless of his men, both in battle and on campaign. A continental secret police, the 'tree of liberty' and a guillotine, in EVERY town. Wow, what a liberator! Grovel, grovel.
Waterloo, and Quatre Bras, may not have been such close run things if W had had more of his Peninsular veterans and generals, majority were sent off to America or elsewhere.
Add the decision of Blucher to form up on the forward slopes at Ligny. A pretty dumb thing to do against the best artillery in the world, no?
Frankly despite 'the reaction' after 1815, eg. 'the Metternich system', I for one am glad that Nappy was finally dished at Waterloo.
Timbo in Oz
The Skyptical Mensurer and Audio Scrounger
Peace
Follow Ups:
I will have to retrain myself on the subject, having not the affordable knowledge on this matter to say anything I could be proud of....
Hey Timbo,Sorry I missed your post before - been somewhat busy.
Relax, man, I didn't mean to reopen old wounds and fight the old conflicts again - just teasing you. Since I am neither French nor British, I shall let you settle this score with some other poor soul - Patrick, perhaps? He-he...
No need for any excuse for W - if we start coming up with excuses, everyone will get his fair share. But I still maintain that in his statue as the warior Napoleon stands alone... W just being a local commander by comparisson.
I agree the fascination with Napoleon can go too far - always a possibility with every historical figure. But there IS justification for that, as he WAS a unique figure.
You know, he kicked the Russian butt quite hard, but I somehow do not hold it against him - I hate bloody war, but if there IS war, let the better man win!
A local commander?, well Nappy always underestimated him too, a 'sepoy General', even after his best Marshal's failed in Spain.Wellington. French trained.
Consistently succesful, often against huge odds, survived defeats with army intact.
Realised early on the power of agressive defence, in the context of the military 'technos' of the times. Careful with his men.
Valued rifles.
Fully understood logistics and tactics, proper commissariat, paid his bills. This was probably critical in sustaining support in the Peninsula, esp. the 'guerilla'.
Use of ground, both strategically and tactically, excellent. Would not let his armies be battered while in defence, same understanding of the power of artillery. But a rather different response.
Lower than typical losses from disease, wounds, or lack of food.
Drained Frances strength over the years of the Peninsula campaign. AND, other European armies learned from these campaigns.
Beat Napoleon, with 'an infamous army', first time up.
I would recommend that you read the biography of W by that English aristocrat lady, 2 or more parts, I think.
Napoleon. Also French trained.NOT always successful!
A clever opportunist aginst 'hide-bound' / '18c war of maneouvre' European armies, that also had not the elan his did, until the end.
Truly excellent at dividing, moving separately and yet combining at the 'schwerpunkt'. BUT, nearly undid them many times, and it got him in the end.
Battles were battering processes.
Clear and deep understanding of how to use the best artillery park in the world, not thanks to him though, but maybe over-emphasised artillery, thus affecting his adherence to column tactics?
Dismissed rifles, and relied on the "swarm" of voltigeurs and chasseurs.
Underemphasised musketry, even in the Guard light infantry units few could load and fire as quickly as British.
Ground? Good but not consistently so, either strategically or tactically. Brilliant sometimes, witlessly stupid at others. .....
Strikingly willing to take on well prepared enemy defences despite horrendous casualties. Borodino and Waterloo are only 2 good examples. ......Extraordinarily careless of his soldier's lives, consistently and horrendously so, from the outset in Italy onwards.
Relied on forage and capture to sustain his armies with food and everything else, horses, powder, shot, oxen. Perhaps understandable and even unavoidable, but very cruel to the resident pop'n.
Bad habit of leaving his men in the lurch! Doesn't wash with me, maybe 'cos I'm not much into saluting. Running home to a well used pussy while his men died in Egypt.
I actually think that Russia kicked the shit out of Nappy, not the other way around, just as it did the Wehrmacht.
[JBTW Do remember that it was the volunteer Australian infantry division (9th) who first dissed the Wehrmacht myth in WWII. At Tobruk in 1941, and at Alamein (both I and II)in 1942. Not meaning to diss Leclerc and the Foreign Legion Patrick, but Bir Hacheim was LATER, did your country no end of good though! A mix of volunteers and conscripts from Australia also put an end to the 'invincible Japanese* jungle fighters' myth, at Milne Bay in New Guinea, well before the USMC at Guadalcanal.]
* In conventional open warfare? Zhukov had done it to the Nips at Kalkin Gol, earlier still.
Timbo in Oz
The Skyptical Mensurer and Audio Scrounger
Peace
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