Films/DVD Asylum

"Heat" and "Ronin"

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rico

(A)

These two both feature Robert De Niro as the lead experienced bad guy
and each has a lot of carnage laden gunfights. In each De Niro bonds with another bad guy who gets killed toward the end. Although "Ronin" was written largely by an uncredited David Mamet it has little plot so "Heat" comes out as the more literate film. But in "Ronin", master director Frankenheimer captures a wonderful sense of place in the large and small French cities and ountryside. "Heat" also features relationships with women, all three of whom would like their men to stop being obsessed with their work, be it crime or law enforcement. Aside from the Irish Deidre there are no strong female leads in "Ronin".
I watched these two just by chance on consecutive nights abd enjoyed them even more this second time around.

Follow Ups:

Heat is truly a great one . . . - albee33 06:01:40 09/20/04 (0)
and one of my all time crime faves. After seeing it several times I regreted that I couldn't be on DeNiro's crew. He really took care of those guys--a study of honor among thieves. Plus, the scene between he and Pacino was priceless, much the same as Walken and Hopper in True Romance.
( huh? )
"Heat" is great and seems to stand up to repeated viewing. On the other hand...... - PdL 05:25:55 09/20/04 (2)
I never really liked Ronin. To me it seemed a bit too "action" oriented at the expense of plot (and charater) development for me.
The more recent Robert D movie that I thought was really good was The Score. He had a relationship with a woman in that one too.... Plus Edward Norton did a great job posing as a mentally handicapped janitor.
- Best Part of Ronin Was.... - AudioHead 07:23:23 09/20/04 (1)
  its chase scene. ~AH
  - I demur . . . for me the best was - Auricle 10:46:08 09/20/04 (0)
    the scene when they were doing the exchange with the arms dealers in the tunnel. De Niro's understanding of the risk and his contempt for "Spence" (Sean Bean) are palpable. Having been in very strange places and seen similar fools, it sent a chill down my spine.
Re: "Heat" and "Ronin" - Auricle 05:13:32 09/20/04 (10)
in "Ronin" De Niro was a good guy posing as a bad guy, not really a bad guy.
And DeNiro truly bonds with Pacino (the "good guy") in "Heat".
But your points are quite well taken. Frankenheimer does indeed get the "feel" of his locations but overall "Heat" is the more satisfying film to me.
- Re: Pitt - rico 05:46:53 09/20/04 (9)
  But wouldn't you say that De Niro's closer bond is with Bthe Brad Pitt character, the one he breaks his 30 second rule over?
  - Re: Pitt - I am a bit confused, do you mean Kilmer, perchance? - Auricle 10:42:10 09/20/04 (8)
    Pitt was in neither movie that I recall nor according to the IMDB.
    The character you refer to seems to be Kilmer's character in "Heat". If so you have a point, but that relationship was "father and son", not combatants on the battlefield who actually come to like and admire each other. The image of Pacino holding De Niro's hand as he dies is quite aomething.
    Even so, De Niro invests a great deal of energy in Kilmer's character.
    It is gratifying that Michael Mann is finally getting recognition from critics. I frankly think his movie "Theif" with James Caan was before its time and quite influential. Even Tuesday Weld ain't bad.
    If I have missed something, please inform!
    Cheers
    - Re: Sorry - rico 12:50:12 09/20/04 (1)
      I always get those blond handsome guys mixed up. My apologies.
      - Agh, mon! All us handsome blonde guys . . . - Auricle 14:32:13 09/20/04 (0)
        
        In Reply to: Re: Sorry posted by rico on September 20, 2004 at 12:50:12:
        
        look alike. Of course my hair is more white than blonde, now. And the last time I was as ripped as Brad in "Fight Club" or "Troy" was, er . . . uh . . .
        Never mind!
        (Sigh!)
    - 'Thief' ............Now your talking.......... - kanesays 11:45:50 09/20/04 (5)
      If you enjoyed 'Heat' then I think that Michael Mann's 'Thief' is required viewing. The soundtrack by Tangerine Dream is outstanding and way ahead of it's time. A great, smart heist film.
      - Also... - michael w 19:21:15 09/20/04 (0)
        
        In Reply to: 'Thief' ............Now your talking.......... posted by kanesays on September 20, 2004 at 11:45:50:
        
        ...a little seen TV movie by Mann called LA Takedown, which was the roughcut for Heat.
      - Was the score . . . - Auricle 14:35:07 09/20/04 (3)
        
        In Reply to: 'Thief' ............Now your talking.......... posted by kanesays on September 20, 2004 at 11:45:50:
        
        the first "synthetic" score in a major film release? I think it was but I stand to be corrected.
        I really like that film and I had the good fortune to see it in the theatre in its initial release. It caused quite a reaction in the audience. I do not know if it has made DVD yet, but I own the laser . . . quite nice!
        Cheers for now!
        
        Re: Was the score . . . - rico 06:18:18 09/21/04 (2)
        
        In Reply to: Was the score . . . posted by Auricle on September 20, 2004 at 14:35:07:
        
        If by synthetic you mean using only electronic "instruments" the "Forbidden Planet" was the first.
        
        Re: Was the score . . . - AudioHead 12:56:50 09/21/04 (0)
        
        In Reply to: Re: Was the score . . . posted by rico on September 21, 2004 at 06:18:18:
        
        Plan on revising and reposting my review of "Forbidden Planet" hopefully
        in near future, procrastination has ruled so far. ~AH
        
        Thanks, Rico! -nt- - Auricle 12:37:40 09/21/04 (0)
        
        In Reply to: Re: Was the score . . . posted by rico on September 21, 2004 at 06:18:18:

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