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In Reply to: Re: Two examples of Penn's fine acting after your examples: posted by rico on February 19, 2005 at 13:54:02:
More seriously, I couldn't agree more. Lone Star is an amazing movie and his performance is magnificent. I liked him as well in American Beauty, with all its faults (outweighed by the strenths, in my book).
Liam Neeson is another underrated guy: consider
Rob Roy, Shindler's List, and several other roles.
Jurgen Prachnow, though pretty much wasted since he came to Hollywood, still deserves immortality because of Das Boot.
Spacey and Malkovich are also extremely talented. Benecio del Toro in Usual Suspects, 21 Grams, Traffic. Very strong leading man.
Ralph Fiennes for Schindler's, Quiz Show (?), and (though I hated the movie) The English Patient.
Jet Li, Beat Takeshi, and the Fat guy from Crouching Tiger, to mention a few Asians.
Denzel, Morgan Freeman, Samuel Jackson...to name a few A-As. And how about Travolta???
Jeff Bridges belongs in this list somewhere, as well.
I know I'm forgetting about half the guys, too. Actually, this is a pretty good age for movie stars/actors (males, anyway).
Follow Ups:
Of actors that are pretty good on this list! Uncle! Uncle!Morgan Freeman. Would love to see him in a slimy role like he had in "Street Smart" again. Pauline Kael asked if he was the best actor in America today. He probably is.
Kevin Spacey and Jeff Bridges are good, too. Travolta was great early in his career ("Carrie" thru "Blow Out") and during his comeback ("Pulp Fiction" "Get Shorty" "Michael")...not so sure about his work today but you are right, can't count him out. Denzel is good but holds himself back (except in "Training Day"). Would love to see him play a man whole, with good and bad points, in a film better than the one where he took the hospital hostage (can't think of the name off the top of my head).
The others? Good performances here and there. A couple of years of good work followed by stuff that leaves me cold. Fiennes, Malkovich, Neeson all good examples here. It will be interesting to see del Toro's work in the next 2-3 years now that the hype is not as strong.
Sean Penn just leaves me cold. I know, lots of critical acclaim but I prefer his early naturalistic work over the stuff he does today. Would love to see him play a man who comes from wealth who has never had to work...oh wait a minute! That's who he is! He is that every day...except in his films! Brando came from a well-off family too (ranch, investments, and a, what, 9-room apartment shared with his sister and mother in the 40s in Manhattan), but he could convey anyone in any situation. It's hard for me to see Penn doing the same. I could be wrong here, there may be a "beam in my eye" preventing me from seeing his genius, but what can I say?
One name you didn't mention: Jack Nicholson. Now there is an actor who tries to do something interesting in every role he plays.
Meg Ryan and Nicole Kidman are at least trying to do "challenging" roles. Cate Blanchett is pretty good.
But, Freeman and Travolta aside, I say let's wait another 5-10 years before we place these guys in the same league as Brando, Bogie, Stewart, Grant, etc. A couple of lit matches ain't quite a flame, IMHO.
Thanks for reminding me of some good things from the last 15-20 years! Going over your list brought an unexpected, "Hmmm, he's right" a couple of times!
Blanchett, Kidman...I'd add Winslet, as well.
I don't think Meg Ryan belongs in the list, though she did shine in ONE film, something "....Courage".
Got to add Uma to this list, also.
Didn't mention Jack N, or DeNiro, or Pacino for obvious reasons...EVERYONE considers them great---and they're approaching geezerhood (the A-A actors I mentioned are getting long in the tooth also but are oftentimes neglected when discussions of great actors take place).
I placed Meg Ryan on my list of actresses because she is at least trying to do something other than "Meg Ryan" roles. Uma Thurman is terrific in Tarantino's movies...will be looking forward to seeing her next work.But you are right...once we get past the obvious geezers...there are several good actors doing good work when given the opportunity.
and get back to us. I can't believe you weren't convinced of his rural roots in "Dead Man Walking," too.
C'mon, forget his parentage, he can't help it...
Two of the films you mention I agree with..."Fast Times" and "Bad Boys". I would add "Racing to the Moon" to that list too, and he plays a small town character in that one.As I said before, maybe I have a beam in my eye when I see Penn, but I still believe he "froze" into a "actor" somewhere after 1984. There are moments in "At Close Range" and "Colors" and even in the later movies. But for me, they are just moments, not a whole characterization that fits the warp and woof of a movie. I only mention Penn's background because he does play "rural", "dangerous", "mentally retarded", and I was noting that he stays far far away from anything that he truly is. Why? What would he show us?
Who knows? Penn has years of work left, God willing. So perhaps he will do film(s) that will bring me in agreement with you! I certainly am not anti-Penn (and it's definitely not a political thing), I am just cold to him. I will always be happy to read opinions that offer clues as to why he is so critically acclaimed.
an amazing performance. He grows, in the space of an hour or two, from a boy to a man. Walken delivers one of the most amazing evil characters in film history, as well. See HIM in Comfort of Strangers if you want to see him portray another very interesting strange personality. Both films are extremely under-rated.
Why Sean doesn't portray well-educated or rich yuppie kids? There aren't too many starring roles of that type and who'd care if there were????
BTW, Bob Dylan came from a fairly priveleged background and sang hobo songs pretty well...Pete Seeger also wasn't a poor guy.
Yes, Bob Dylan said he had traveled all over the country on the rails like a hobo or tramp. And he sang the "hobo" songs, too. For about 3 years. As soon as he started writing his own songs, the "hobo" thing was over. "Crimson flames tied through their ears" just doesn't convey that hobo experience very well, y'know!What I was trying to point out is that Penn does not play a wide range of characters. Even Bogie was a science-fiction vampire! Look at the wide range of characters Brando essayed. It just seems to me that Penn limits himself to a narrow range of character portrayals. I brought up his background to point out that he is certainly very aware of other kinds of life in these United States. Maybe after the movie with Madonna, he just doesn't get offered those other kinds of roles! But just for example, one of my favorite Alec Baldwin roles is the husband in "Beetlejuice". When I say that to friends, they are shocked to remember that, yes, that was Alec.
Chris Walken...I...love that...guy! A very good actor who can also dance. I wonder how many actors could do his monologue in "Pulp Fiction"?
What about "Sweet and Lowdown" and "The Game"?
Three roles out of a career that spans 25 years. But perhaps I should not use range of roles as a factor in looking at Sean Penn's career. After all, between 1915 and 1936, how many different roles did Chaplin play? (Although what Chaplin did and what Penn does today are two vastly different things). Sean Penn just lost me somewhere in the mid 80s. He has done some things that have interested me since. But they are just moments, flashes here and there. One could have said the same thing about Brando at one time. But then Brando did "Reflections of a Golden Eye," "Candy," "The Nightcomers," (the last two not good films but very good performances in them) and a couple of other films we all know about.
Penn is not an actor I look forward to seeing in a movie at this time. But who knows what is around the pike? "All the King's Men" might be interesting to see, and as a Louisiana resident who remembers the end of the Long/anti-Long days, I want to see it. As I said, Penn hopefully has years to go to give many performances and reignite my earlier opinion of his work.
After all, I'm from Louisiana, and Robert Penn Warren based the original novel on Huey Long. Until Russell Long retired, 99% of the politics in this state revolved around whether you were "Long" or "anti-Long." Edwin Edwards was originally seen as a young campaigner with no ties to either camp who could get things done! When your senator has been named "Long", you have an interest in things like "All the King's Men"...no matter WHO the star is!Get ready, Sean, 'cause here I come!
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