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In Reply to: FWIW here's what I didn't like. posted by sjb on February 2, 2006 at 22:12:04:
>>> "I never believed for a momet that Rhys' character cared for the sister and he didn't do or show anything - on screen - to have made anyone in that family believe it either. Also he had more chemistry with the brother than he did with either Scarlett or the sister (come to think of it he also had more chemistry with his tennis buddy than he did with either of them)." <<<You guys apparently missed the subtle societal push & pull entirely. A lot of what was going on had to do with image and being groomed. Face it, the daughter was just average looking, a fact not lost on the family or overlooked by Rhys as the strategies developed. Her brother wasn't especially a handsome bloke either, but the family's position in society and their financial power base centered around male heirs, so the father and mother were intent upon the son marrying according to his status and the daughter being married to someone who wouldn't bring disgrace upon the family name.
The whole idea of bringing the tennis instructor into the family firm and grooming him for future business success was classic old world class structure. The average looking daughter would thus be married off to someone of good stock who had no other family ties, even if that good stock had to be manufactured in order to maintain the upper class family's social standing. In that way future generations of family wealth would be maintained.
The son's interest in the American actress (Scarlett) was perceived as a threat to the family's wealth and prestige, especially by the mother, and she was never accepted as a serious candidate for courtship by the family. Rhy's interests in the actress were not so much indiscrete, as considered inconsequential, overlooked by a family who believed that grooming Rhy's for introduction into proper society took precedence over all else once his commitment to the daughter was established.
>>> "For a family so tuned to potential social climbers and so concerned with the happiness of their daughter/sister they sure let a very suspicious acting non caring person into hers and their lives (and made him rich to boot -- and allowed him to be as careless as he wanted to be at work and with his money)." <<<
Again, they (especially the matriarch of the family) weren't nearly as concerned about the daughter's happiness as maintaining their family dynasty and social standing. Rhy's made the best of this environment and proved competent enough in business to satisfy the ambitions set by his new family.
>>> "Also, there were so many clues to the double life he was leading and he was so poor at hiding that there was a bunch of secret stuff going on that it was totally unbelievable to me (preposterous might be a better word) that no one seriously called him on it. It required a level of suspension of disbelief - too high for me - to think it reasonable that nobody in that family was suspiscious of him." <<<
Suspicion would've meant not only questioning his integrity, but their own as the family had become committed to bringing Rhy's into their family. His liasons with Scarlett's character were easily mistaken as work related overachieving, the idea being that from the parent's standpoint it would be inconceivable for Rhy's character to squander the opportunity he'd been provided.
>>> "And that scene with Scarlett and Rhys in the bar. That's when people were laughing. I wasn't sure if the dialogiue or acting or lack of chemistry was worse but all toghether it made for another preposterous scene (IMO, of course).
The seven or eight scenes of her yelling at him because he hadn't told his wife yet were often just as bad (acting and script wise) and I really felt like it revealed a limit to Scarlett's range but I'm willing ot give her the benefit of the doubt and say it revealed a weakness in the script and directing." <<<
WOW! You must've been watching a different movie or at least had a different film going on in your head while watching this one! I thought that those scenes were entirely C-R-E-D-I-B-L-E. Maybe Scarlett's acting range was supposed to appear limited; after all she couldn't seem to land any long-term acting jobs while auditioning in London. ;^)
>>> "Lots of convenient cuts too to get out of sticky situations... for instance, skipping showing the awkwardness of he and Scarlett coming back into the house soaking wet and clearly having just done the deed (and we're supposed to believe this went off without a hitch in a house where a. her fiance went to look for her and b. the next couple of times Rhys disapeared for a little while - to deal with the gun - his wife couldnt go more than a couple of minutes without looking for him... and that's when Scarlett WASN'T around)." <<<
Again, it's British society which is more suspicious of class motivations than obvious sexual indiscretion. BTW, it's not so much a "house" as a very large estate; it isn't difficult imagining Rhy's and Scarlett disappearing for a period in such a setting. As for the gun scenario, the sustained suspense was very Hitchcockian, the audience anticipating the possibility of Rhy's character getting caught at any point along the way, but knowing that once actions are set in motion it's just a matter of fate leaning one way or the other.
>>> "The two cops were great." <<<
Apparently, the one thing we can agree on regarding this particular film! James Nesbitt, the lead detective in Match Point, is the star of Murphy's Law which is an excellent BBC crime drama (airs sporadically on BBC America's Monday Mysteries); highly recommended! :o)
Cheers,
AuPh
Follow Ups:
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"Do I have to spell it out?
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you either buy that he was let into that family by imagining scenarios that weren't at all played out (or even seriously hinted at) in the film and you think the acting wiritng and directing is good based on that imagining or you see the film for what it is and consider it mediocre at best.
;-)
Seriously though... I did consider that the family was basically aware of his indiscretions but overlooked them. I though, thought that if that was true, it was for the sake of the daughters happiness and not some desire to continue the family dynasty and cement their social standing -- a pretty ridiculous notion consideringt there's no way the people in their class would ever take Rhys seriously as one them and because the family was NEVER shown in any kind of upper class social situation with their peers trying to apss him off as worthy. Anyway for me, the believability of what Auph proposes hinges on this...
"Rhy's interests in the actress were not so much indiscrete, as considered inconsequential, overlooked by a family who believed that grooming Rhy's for introduction into proper society took precedence over all else once his commitment to the daughter was established."
Now forgetting for the moment that we've already established how ridiculous it is to think that Rhys was let into the family to continue their dynasty, he never once deomonstrated on screen that he genuinely cared about or was committed to the daughter. He didn't even fully demonstrate that he was conmitted to his new lifestyle until he started killing people which was a couple or few years after they let him in.
I just can't make the leap and think that the brother and father, who both demonstrated a warmth and a genuine love for their sister/daughter would callously overlook her happiness for the sake of trying to establish some low life social climbing philanderer as belonging in high society in order to further the "dynasty."
IF that was the story it was even more poorly done then I thought.
Also, the daughter was not at all unattractive.
"Where are we going? And what am I doing in this hand basket?"
... you are assuming things that were never even hinted at in the film and misinterpreting other things. The love of the father for his daughter and brother for his sister has to be tempored by the manipulative nature of the matriarchal head of this household. Given the subtext of Woody's take on the stiff-upper lip British culture this film could almost be viewed as the study of a dysfunctional upper class family which is held together by pride and generations of inherited wealth.Taken another way, Match Point could be Woody's answer to LoTR! ;^D
> > > "Now forgetting for the moment that we've already established how ridiculous it is to think that Rhys was let into the family to continue their dynasty, he never once deomonstrated on screen that he genuinely cared about or was committed to the daughter. He didn't even fully demonstrate that he was conmitted to his new lifestyle until he started killing people which was a couple or few years after they let him in." < < <
I disagree, Rhy's character did establish his interest in the daughter and effectively portrayed himself as an underdog in need of saving which perfectly played to the daughter's character. She became strongly infatuated with him, albeit much more so than he with her; to him, she was an openning to a world he'd only dreamed about.
He intentionally went about impressing the family with his polite restrained demeanor and serious effort to better himself. The father obviously saw something admirable in Rhy's ambitions and as the daughter was infatuated with him it seemed reasonable to give the boy his chance once he had established himself in the good graces of everyone else in the family, especially the mother.
> > > "I just can't make the leap and think that the brother and father, who both demonstrated a warmth and a genuine love for their sister/daughter would callously overlook her happiness for the sake of trying to establish some low life social climbing philanderer as belonging in high society in order to further the "dynasty."" < < <
They never saw Rhy's character as a "low life social climbing philanderer," but they were concerned about her taking up with someone unsuccessful and the cost of that to both their daughter's happiness and the family pride, so the father openned doors for the boy that he'd never have been able to accomplish by himself.
> > > "Also, the daughter was not at all unattractive." < < <
In comparison with Scralett she was average, not totally unattractive, but not beautiful. That's the way the characters were played in the context of the film and it worked perfectly, IMHO.
AuPh
sometiomes thats worse than unattractive, no? I did like her tho. I felt she was hanging onto Rhys as a good catch but deep down she seemed alright. And sure to forgive his indescretions, IMHO, up to but not including, a pregnancy. Just as deep down Rhys wasn't a good person.
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"Do I have to spell it out?
C --- H ---- E ---E ---- S --- E
A --- N --- D
O ---- N ---- I ---- O ---- N ---- S"
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