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I told my wife not to get it - she still did.Makes me truly ashamed for my fellow Americans.
Follow Ups:
Although I don't expect to change your viewpoint - I will say I'm glad my post inspired you to sit upright and type an interesting rebuttal. I enjoyed reading what you wrote.I digress when I point out that this kind of writing has been sorely lacking on the film asylum. Most posts on this page of late, (including this surrounding thread) are pompous, lazy and dismissive. Instead of sharing ideas in the context of the love for film- many authors seem more interested in expressing their egocentric images of themselves as superior & discriminating critics. This is done by ambiguous comments - such as "boring", "dumb" etc. that really don't amount to anything worthwhile or meaningful. It's just the pitter patter of nincompoops. Those kind of posts certainly don't inspire the exchange of ideas that ultimately teach us about each other.
I can assure you that despite the hand my moniker tips (NYC)., I've lived and traveled in more areas then you assume. Because of this diversity I am not limited to any one stereotype about color, creed or geographical heritage. Another belief I have is that great art does not compromise itself. Furthermore a great artist always raises the bar as high as possible without dumbing down for preconceived assumptions based on the audiences intellect. The artists concern should be about "what they need to say". I feel that many thought provoking and challenging political ideas are accomplished and realized in "Borat". He "lifts the rock" and we see what lives under it. He shows us America, with all it's ignorance and prejudice under a satirical magnifying glass that inspired belly-laughs (for me anyway) . I believe and I seriously doubt that his satirical presentation of anti-Semitism would reinforce and support the hatred of Jews **No matter where in the United States the film is viewed** We strongly disagree on this point-and I need not to undermine your credibility by making assumptions about YOU, to prove my point.
Would you be threatened by John Lennon's "Woman is the Nigger of the World" as a theme for misogynists? I hope not .
I'm also happy that the filmmakers associated with Borat made money- it was a brave undertaking. An unusual film and a breath of fresh air in the cookie cutter Hollywood system. I also point out that Martin Scorcese, Alfred Hithcock, Sydney Lumet, William Wyler, John Houston etc etc made money, making films. This doesn't taint their art in any way. Why hold it against Borat?
I would never join a club that was presumptuous enough about the mentality of small town folk, that they could assume the worst case scenario about their potential ignorance. The assumption that 90% of the public are morons is sad statement that expresses elitism, a lack of empathy, cynicism and in my opinion, a warped view of reality. This observation of yours proves that your glass isn't half-full, it's completely empty.
a
Most posts on this page of late, (including this surrounding thread) are pompous, lazy and dismissive. Instead of sharing ideas in the context of the love for film- many authors seem more interested in expressing their egocentric images of themselves as superior & discriminating critics. This is done by ambiguous comments - such as "boring", "dumb" etc. that really don't amount to anything worthwhile or meaningful. It's just the pitter patter of nincompoops. Those kind of posts certainly don't inspire the exchange of ideas that ultimately teach us about each other.
Or maybe you really don't like stuff such as this:
Don't you find it depressing when people quote from the likes of Lennon?
No, just when they don't.
I digress when I point out that this kind of writing has been sorely lacking on the film asylum. Most posts on this page of late, (including this surrounding thread) are pompous, lazy and dismissive. Instead of sharing ideas in the context of the love for film- many authors seem more interested in expressing their egocentric images of themselves as superior & discriminating critics. This is done by ambiguous comments - such as "boring", "dumb" etc. that really don't amount to anything worthwhile or meaningful. It's just the pitter patter of nincompoops. Those kind of posts certainly don't inspire the exchange of ideas that ultimately teach us about each other.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
w
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
he still needs to work on his Khazakh accent though.
.
Generally, she is a very intelligent woman with good manners who resents my sometimes rude language, but this time I had to constrain her.
nt
If I had to choose the decline, I would take not being able to decide which of 245 kinds of cheese to use with 2003 Banyuls, than the slide towards the mindless, crude and frankly, idiotic society.
as I have no idea what you just wrote. I hope you are not one of those gypsies who turn homeowners into toy dolls and take over their homes.
...the narrow-minded bigots, of which we have quite a few.Of course the other alternative is simply that those who enjoyed that movies - and make themselves comfortable in that sort of thinking - are not quite the brightest candles in the bunch.
We all want to think it is the other guy who is a moron. In reality the enjoyers might really have been had.
To cleanse myself I will spend 30 days with monks in Tibet.
It appears that some of those who enjoyed watching others ridiculed have amazingly thin skin.
You didn't offend me. I enjoy jousting....but I must admit, I feel a little undergunned with you. Still fun.
I am just venting my frustration...
I'd feel more comfortable challenging you to a fly casting competetion.
The idea that this film is poking fun at bigots rather than egging them on is patently ridiculous. Maybe I can handle Borat for five-minute spoofs, but after an entire movie I was kicking myself for not walking out at the 10 minute mark. The things that pass for humor these days...
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
I think the film is also very popular in Russia, where the Khazakhs are considered the Untermenschen, so I am sure many Russians appreciate feeling superior to the idiot.Indeed, incredible what passes for humor today... also incredible what passes for movies.
Even more incredible is that fact than no matter what you make, will find audience.
At least it looks like the fart humor by itself is no longer a guarantee of success.
...20 year old?That's the market it's targeted to.
And those who haven't matured beyond 20...
It's not necessary to insult people who happen to disagree with you on a film. This site doesn't usually go there. Hope you are not the first of many.
...insult you.I was aiming more at Victor's pomposity.
I see below you liked the film.
I thought it was amusing in parts but way over the top in others. I thought 'Little Miss Sunshine' was much funnier. But that's personal taste.
Not maturing beyond 20 is not necessarily a bad thing.
My wife says I someitmes act like I haven't matured much beyond 17.
She's right, too.
Your response that is. I thought Little Miss Sunshine was horrible, but obviously there are many who disagree. One of the nice things about this board is the diversity of viewpoint.I'm looking forward to a Borat II.
I think it is incorrect to paint all 20 yo audience with one brush.
...I'd like to hear your opinion of the "fear of the Jew" thing.
It did not resonate in any way. I thought the jokes were adolescent at best, the "This shirt is black... pause... not!" being the representative in level and funniness. Pretty much every "joke" was old too.
nt
I got one on order, you should see the shipping charge on that one!BTW - I remember your razor question... will be there in April.
I thought that sequence was hysterical.Appreciate the razor thing.
My brother has quite the collection of folding knives, if there's a
specific question you have I can ask him about it.I'm going there tonight to straighten out a home wiring problem.Later
Rich
P.S. To me the previous series of BMWs were much better looking.
No, nothing specific... just bought one for a present, and in process developed some interest.Do you also want the Michael Caine's wig to go with your razer? :-)
I may be losing my hair but I'm not into wigs,thanks for the offer tho.
Later
Rich
....via the trailers. There were a couple funny moments. When he was in with the feminists group is the only one that stands out and that I remember however off-hand, and we just rented it on Friday. Don't get the hype at all TBH. Everything seemed staged to us. It was a different movie to be sure, but different doesn't make it good to me. I'd give this movie maybe 1 star out of five.
Borat is an equal opportunity insulter.
Not a great film but I liked it, against my better and pre-conceived judgment.
But then you can always blame it on the fact that I did not grow up with them.
...to complete your cultural education.
.
...maybe you'd prefer Le Tres Imbeciles'.Or perhaps W.C. Fields is more your cup of tea..
There you have it - Vicky has spoken!
.
E Berlin ? What was his monicker?
Sorry Vicky ... Moniker
nt
How many people did Max Brothers kill?
Of course it wasn't a perfect film and I don't want to stand on a soapbox defending nude wrestling -but it had wonderful moments of satire.The diversity and chaos of American culture was ridiculed and celebrated brilliantly
The "National Anthem" was worth the price of admission.
Whatever shortcomings America has were hilariously but under a skewed microscope.
someone carrying his feces to a dinner party, Jews portrayed as money-grubbing cockroaches, what can we possibly clarify for you.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
You miss the point nt
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
I think your point was trying to enlighten me to your narrow one-dimensional viewpoints of Borat.My point is that it is satire. Satire and can't be taken literally.
A reminder for you ....
satire |ˈsaˌtīr| noun the use of humor, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues. See note at wit . • a play, novel, film, or other work that uses satire : a stinging satire on American politics.satire |ˈsaˌtīr| noun the use of humor, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues. See note at wit . • a play, novel, film, or other work that uses satire : a stinging satire on American politics.
Jimmy, while you and I may be educated, grounded, decent people who understand satire and understand the movie's real intentions, I assure you that 90% or more of the moviegoing public are complete morons. They do not care about the intentions of Sacha Baron Cohen or Larry Charles.Someone with anti-semitic views who sees that movie is not going to say, "gosh, I really liked how Borat satirically poked fun at Jew-haters". The sad truth is that many people who see the movie will actually connect with the bigots, not the attempt to ridicule bigots. And therein lies the danger and folly of a film this incendiary.
Someday you should venture outside New York City...maybe try watching Borat in a movie theater in the midwest or a different country altogether. And when the audience bellows and cheers and laughs during the scene where Borat throws wadded-up dollar bills to ward off the shape-shifting, evil Jews who have transformed themselves into cockroaches, ask yourselves what the audience is really connecting with. I felt uncomfortable watching this in Oakland, CA after a Taj Mahal concert.
You and I know the makers of the film don't intend to be taken literally. But that doesn't mean anything. It wouldn't surprise me a bit to learn that some people use clips from Borat for purposes that should make Larry Charles ashamed, assuming people who make that much money on a movie are capable of feeling ashamed.
Sometimes it's important to step outside your sphere, take a more global view and ask yourself if this kind of humor is really that entertaining, funny or effective to warrant mass distribution. Audiences in New York, DC, LA and the bay area are one thing. After that, you're dealing with an altogether different animal.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
Although I don't expect to change your viewpoint - I will say I'm glad my post inspired you to sit upright and type an interesting rebuttal. I enjoyed reading what you wrote.I digress when I point out that this kind of writing has been sorely lacking on the film asylum. Most posts on this page of late, (including this surrounding thread) are pompous, lazy and dismissive. Instead of sharing ideas in the context of the love for film- many authors seem more interested in expressing their egocentric images of themselves as superior & discriminating critics. This is done by ambiguous comments - such as "boring", "dumb" etc. that really don't amount to anything worthwhile or meaningful. It's just the pitter patter of nincompoops. Those kind of posts certainly don't inspire the exchange of ideas that ultimately teach us about each other.
I can assure you that despite the hand my moniker tips (NYC)., I've lived and traveled in more areas then you assume. Because of this diversity I am not limited to any one stereotype about color, creed or geographical heritage. Another belief I have is that great art does not compromise itself. Furthermore a great artist always raises the bar as high as possible without dumbing down for preconceived assumptions based on the audiences intellect. The artists concern should be about "what they need to say". I feel that many thought provoking and challenging political ideas are accomplished and realized in "Borat". He "lifts the rock" and we see what lives under it. He shows us America, with all it's ignorance and prejudice under a satirical magnifying glass that inspired belly-laughs (for me anyway) . I believe and I seriously doubt that his satirical presentation of anti-Semitism would reinforce and support the hatred of Jews **No matter where in the United States the film is viewed** We strongly disagree on this point-and I need not to undermine your credibility by making assumptions about YOU, to prove my point.
Would you be threatened by John Lennon's "Woman is the Nigger of the World" as a theme for misogynists? I hope not .
I'm also happy that the filmmakers associated with Borat made money- it was a brave undertaking. An unusual film and a breath of fresh air in the cookie cutter Hollywood system. I also point out that Martin Scorcese, Alfred Hithcock, Sydney Lumet, William Wyler, John Houston etc etc made money, making films. This doesn't taint their art in any way. Why hold it against Borat?
I would never join a club that was presumptuous enough about the mentality of small town folk, that they could assume the worst case scenario about their potential ignorance. The assumption that 90% of the public are morons is sad statement that expresses elitism, a lack of empathy, cynicism and in my opinion, a warped view of reality. This observation of yours proves that your glass isn't half-full, it's completely empty.
> > He shows us America, with all it's ignorance and prejudice < <
> > The assumption that 90% of the public are morons is sad statement < <Well, which is it? You have no problem with the idea that America full of ignorance and prejudice when you watch Borat, but when I come right out and make that point myself, you get on my case for it. You can't have it both ways. And as I alluded to earlier, this is bigger than America. The movie is distributed worldwide to countries where Christians and Jews are hated, and where racism and lack of education is worse than it is here. Look how blacks are portrayed, too. The only blacks shown in the movie are a bunch of gangsta types who teach borat to wear his pants pulled down to his knees. Great. Just what the African American community needed.
Look, this isn't about you and me. It's about whether film makers have any responsibility. I say yes, you seem to say no. Faranheit 9/11 was distributed in the middle east by Hezbollah as a terrorist recruitment tool. That's what happens when a film is made so irresponsibly that it takes little pieces of facts, ignores big pieces, and puts it all together in a way that is very harmful and one-sided and has all the subtlety of a sledgehammer.
I respect Larry Charles. I love his work on Seinfeld, Curb Your Enthusiasm and even Entourage. He's obviously immensely talented. I don't have much respect for SBCohen, but I can certainly understand why you appreciate him and think of his work as artistry. I don't, but again, my overarching point has nothing to do with you or me.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
C'mon J.I. - I think there is a big difference between saying 90% of the movie going public are morons and acknowledging prejudice in the USA.All that said - I'm going to run off ! Before I do I wanted to thank you for your ideas. I appreciated your views and your writing style.
All the best - "Jimmy NYC"
Ok, then what percentage of the public are morons? Your man borat seemed to find many of them without much trouble and I know you identify many of your fellow Americans as prejudiced dolts. So the disagreement between us is what--a matter of degrees, a few percentage points? Bottom line: when you see Borat in a theater and hear the bellows and laughter arround you, there's no way to be sure what the audience has really connected with.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
I think I said something along these lines up above.But you said it first.
Hilarious.
Almost wet myself. The naked wrestling was the only part I could have done without. Loved the bear head in the fridge.
***The naked wrestling was the only part I could have done without.I like really don't see why. It was perfectly in tune with the rest of that marvel.
I laughed my ass off during the naked wrestling.
It's been a while since I physically felt ill under my skin watching a movie. Such bad taste prevailing for a few laughs.
Just kidding... I've made thoughts clear on Borat... though I'm guessing I got more laughs from it than you did.
Don't piss on my shoe and tell me it's raining.
To see the country go ga-ga over this dreck is demeaning. I knew we liked celebrating idiots, but this film truly drove the message home. I felt the touch of Rome.
You're talking about the same country that - for a time at least - waited with baited breath to find out what Paris Hilton was up to. Or where millions of people hang on every second of American Idol or Survivor. Or where Howard Stern gets a $20 million contract, or where Professional Wrestling was the number one sport for a while. Or where we elect... okay... I won't go there.
I think one reason Borat did so well is that people actually like being made fun of. It happens all the time with stand-up comedy routines. They like to laugh at their day to day routines and habits even if those things are exagerrated and taken out of context. It's like getting some attention.We'll survive... and really, with ticket prices where they are and many people seeing it multiple times it probably was only seen by no more than 10 - 12 million people.
Don't piss on my shoe and tell me it's raining.
I do not partake in the things you mentioned, but I am aware of them, and you are right, they come from the same stock as Borat. The point however is not what it is, as most of us have that moronic side inside, and can be silly, but the amount of it.Yes, people do like being made fun of, this also was not the point. That said fun could be made thousand different ways, including... ahem... no, G-d, no... please, not in the context of this "movie" discussion... no... but yes, it could be done intelligently, or it could be done in a totally dumb way. So you concentrate on the subject with which I don't have any issue, and there have been numerous examples of good interesting satire... I am talking about the means.
I am not even talking about that horrible acting and poorly done phony accent... but then it also was much in line with the rest of that pile of crap.
other then ..."crap"
"boring"
"loved it"
C'mon people! work a tiny bit harder to express your points of view.
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