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In Reply to: Well, it appears that this stream is almost fished out. posted by Audiophilander on January 23, 2002 at 21:51:37:

It is always fun to see how quickly the liberals fall apart and start being personal. No need for that, really, as this was supposed to be about fun, after all.
But going back to your arguments. This is the second time you fall into your own trap. Now you are trying to get out by repeating that our likes or lack thereof is just the matter of pure taste. This is not what you stated originally in both threads, and this is not what started that argument. Instead you - again - tried to provide some "objective" justification, however lame, for film's and director's goodness. My counter was in both cases that there is no, and could be no such objective criteria.
If we go back to the start of this thread we will find that you considered Scott great director for two (among a couple others) reasons (I shall not hide from you that I think both are indefensible when applied to ANY art form):
1. His film had high number of sequels.... wow...
2. He showed two girls doing something against the male-dominated society... well, another wow...
And these "arguments" are exactly what I attacked, and I have not seen you put up any reasonable defence of these two.
Instead you kept digging yourself deeper in your last post by repeating this greatness kaka again: "As for Ridley Scott's talent, besides having a roughly 2/1 ratio of hits over misses his track-record has more critical successes than many of his well known contemporaries and he's achieved those successes through a broad range of subjects which is a major accomplishment in itself."
I certainly don't know nor care what "critical successes" you are talking about but presume that is along the Ebert lines, and I already told you I have no respect for that individual.
As we see again, there is no defense based on any artistic merits, just some alledged "success"... mass appeal, really... or the lowest denominator. Figures.
So according to you - popularity, agenda, "success" are what defines the director talent.
According to me it is the ability to touch the inner souls of its viewers, and that is where he, in my opinion, is lacking.
You seem to be so fixated on the woman's role that you just can't let it go. Have it if you want, but just as a very brief summary I would rather have my daughter grow up to be like Ms. Loy than one of the two of your hero brainless morons who's sole contribution to society was - according to you - in standing up against the male domination.
I would submit to you that one could certanly make more worthy contribution to mankind... but that thing touched you so much you just could not stop talking about it. OK, enough of that.
Are you a contributor to the "conspiracy of dumbing up of America"? Yes, I'd say so, with your insistance on agenda driven films. If not for the audience like you we would not see the explosion of "social issue" trash. It certainly was not ME who asked for marvels like T&L or Philadelphia. So accept that blame as just result of your labor.
Here is your last quote: "The fact that I see greatness in many of the director's films while you do not we can always chalk up to personal preferences,
I would not have any problems with that. If you look back some people always express their preferences and I usually don't argue with that. Your problem, just like the last time, was your attempt at providing the "objective proof".

***but the contempt you have for his work seems more deeply rooted to me.
If you allow me, my "contempt" or whatever has grown tremendously since you started throwing items like "success" and "agenda" into this fish soup. Again, blame yourself. Before your argument I didn't see it that way, now I do understand what his works mean to some CERTAIN portion of population, so thank you for educating me. Perhaps not the way you wanted it, but that is outside of your control. This is what you get for getting up on your social soap box all too soon.
I shall pass on that silly mental health sub-attack - I would consider responding to that sort of statements below most individuals here.

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Re: Well, it appears that this stream is almost fished out.