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Hi Folks,In April 2001 I wrote a post titled "Plasma TVs and Diary Of A Two Channel Man," about my "conversion" to plasmas, upon seeing the latest Panasonic plasma. I thought I'd write a very late follow up on that post, seeing as I now own one (and I've included link to screen shots of movies playing on the plasma).
When I first enquired about plasmas it was on this forum, where I encountered a lot of skepticism about plasma image quality. "Plasmas are junk," "Plasmas are a life-style choice, not for the serious video enthusiast...." "(Plasma) doesn't even come close to the quality offered by any number of direct view TV's."
People on AV forums and writers often repeated the "fact" that "Plasmas lag behind the images offered by any good CRT display."Yet this was diametrically opposed to what my eyes were telling me about plasmas: that the best of the breed had a life-like trait to the image that I'd never quite seen before from other display technologies (despite my being exposed to many of the best consumer/pro display types during my work in film post production).
So after a lot of research and auditioning (not only of all the plasmas, but of all possible contenders within the 30" to 50" range...Loewe CRTs etc.) I bit the bullet and bought a Panasonic 42" ED ("Extended Definition") plasma last year.
Result: I, along with everyone who sees it, find the picture out of this world. It's image quality chomps, stomps and jumps up an down all over my Panasonic Tau CRT it replaced. Once you get one of these things into your home, and out of the clumsy set-ups you see in stores, it's amazing the image that can be achieved. The richness, depth of image, smoothness of detail, clarity and sheer realism it can conjure never ceases to amaze.
For the heck of it, I used my Canon S45 digital camera to snap shots of various films playing on my Plasma. I varied the source material, from oldie films to many of the reference DVDs most are familiar with.
Surprisingly, the shots acutally captured *some* of the realism and depth of the display. So, for those curious about plasma picture quality I created a "VIRTUAL PLASMA TOUR." Skeptics are welcome too!Take a look 'n tell me what you think. I'd appreciate any feedback...even from the skeptics :-)
There are 14 films in all. I'd advise looking at the "QUICK TOUR" gallery first, and if you want to see extensive shots from any particular film, proceed to the "FULL FILM GALLERIES."
Enjoy (I hope)!
- Rich H
Follow Ups:
I have nothing against how great plasma screens look but I just can't deal with the constant buzzing noise they make at high altitude. I live in Colorado. I'm waiting for LCD's to come down in price while I "suffer" with my overweight CRT!BTW, nice shots of your plasma screen but.... with all due respect, we're not looking at your plasma screen. We're seeing a picture of your plasma screen taken by a digital camera, rendered by our internet browser, displayed on our computer monitors. It's kind of like saying to someone, "hey, listen to how great my stereo sounds" while you hold the telephone handset up to your speakers.
Abe,Too bad about that buzzing condition...time to move :-)
You're probably aware that LCDs still have trouble with motion and black level (?), although they are getting better...but for now I'd put money on your CRT for the better overall picture."with all due respect, we're not looking at your plasma screen..."
Yes, there are obvious caveats involved. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen a screen shot that does justice to the original display. But I did my best to overcome the "screen shot curse."
What amazed me is how much of the image quality the screen shots captured, in terms of smoothness of detail, dimensionality, range of contrast, and over-all realism. When I watch the plasma it's sometimes seems as clear-as-life; like I'm watching a real person on the other side of the plasma frame. My digital camera seemed to capture that effect to a degree; some of the screen shots strike me as looking more like I photographed the actual actor, vs an image on TV. Try that on an RPTV! :-0
And that is really the point: whether or not on your computer monitor you're seeing exactly the colors I see on the Plasma, it should be apparent the Plasma image had to be quite life-like to begin with.
(I've viewed the screen shots on about six different monitors at friend's houses, and as long as the monitor's brightness and contrast wasn't really out of wacky, the image quality was quite consistent).
Thanks for you comments...I hope there's a nice upgrade from your overweight CRT soon :-) (Although I'd guess have an excellent display).
Rich H.
There's a little tear drop rolling down my cheek as I read your description of your plasma display. I've seen some of the Panasonic plasmas at the local electronics superstore (and in a local museum showing off some Hi-Def National Geographic footage). Truly amazing picture! But since plasma screens are filled with gas, and the altitude is much higher here, that gas pressure isn't right for my geography and the screens buzz. Oh well, maybe they'll develop a pressure valve and spare gas cansisters for future models. ;-)
NOT.Hey, Rich! Great shots. I've seen your screen shots from AVS forum. Way cool! Some people just don't get it, you know. If they'd just take the time to set up their display, they too can have a great picture from their set. Not as good as a plasma, but hey, I'm biased towards these awesome monitors.
By the way, last week someone wanted a comparison of a few 42" plasmas (one being the Panasonic) on AVS forum. I didn't tell them to "do a search" for Panny plasmas. I told him to do a search for YOU in the plasma forum! All the info and pictures he would ever need. Bet he wasn't dissappointed. Come to think of it, maybe the plasma division at Panasonic owes you a commission for all the "free" publicity they get?
And that "Group Shot" at the bottom -- is it a picture of your neighbors after you got your plasma? HAAAAAAAAAAA!!!
Hey Joe, thanks for the props, bro."I liked Panasonic so much, I bought the company!" That'll be me :-)
It's too bad none of AA's anti-plasma crowd are showing up to see the screen-shots. I was curious what the "Plasma sucks" guys would think of the photos. I remember one fella writing "Plasmas are junk...I wouldn't take one if it was given to me."
Rich H.
I remember one fella writing "Plasmas are junk...I wouldn't take one if it was given to me."It's kind of you to mention him as just a fella rather than a blithering idiot... a free plasma? Yes, I'd take it! I might resell it, but...
Honestly I think plasma displays look excellent, but the price tag associated with them is just too high for me to consider. Then again, I've never believed in "excellence at any price". I've always leaned more towards the best I could afford. I also still have a soft spot for CRTs. But I'm also very interested to see how the LCD panels develop over time.
Does anyone remember something that came up in either the mid or late 80s called micropoint? I recall reading about it in Popular Electronics or Popular Mechanics. They were trying to develop something to compete with LCD was back then that would be both lighter and brighter. It consisted of thousands of tiny cones whose tips would light up in red, green, or blue (I think they were dedicated color cones, but I'm not 100%). It was supposed to be lighter and thinner than anything else that was being worked on, even claiming that this could be made so that the whole screen could be rolled up for storage if needed without damaging the unit.
I haven't heard anything about it since, but at the time the report intrigued me. Anyone else have anything on that?
...I think they've come a LONG way. The first models, and many models that people saw in places like BB & CC were awful. The newer Panasonics, Pioneers, Fujistus, Hitachis and others look very good indeed, and some (like the first three) look excellent. These plasmas a lightyears ahead of the plasmas from 3 or 4 years ago. BTW, I caught your shots over on avsforum. Very nice. Got any of Dark City or FOTR?I almost bought the Panny 42" ED model myself last fall. Three things stopped me: No DVI/HDCP; shadow detail on Dark City & LOTR; lastly, if I have room in the next house, I'd really like a 50". The black levels were not an issue...the contrast on the Pannies is excellent. The shadow detail was better on the Pioneers, the colors were very good, but the blacks were a bit too much on the grey side. (Fan noise too.) I think the model you bought is the best bang for the buck in fixed pixel display unless you're going with a FP.
I checked out the DLP and Grand Wega III LCDs too...I liked the plasmas better. The Samsung DLPs weren't good on SD and has a lot of bugs. The black levels and shadow detail on the Grand Wegas is improving, but not yet where I would buy one.
BTW, how do you display 4"3 material on your Panny? Zoom? Stretch? I have a lot of classic movies, and I hate stretch modes. I usually use the 14:9 mode on my 34" WS Philips.
I like plasmas a lot. I love the sharpness and depth of fixed pixel displays, and HD and DVDs look super on these screens. And yes, they are sexy. People used to tell me tube elctronics were no good too, but I didn't believe them.
Congrats on the Panny. Enjoy!
Harmonia,Thanks.
Sorry, no LOTR screen shots...I'm about done taking those darned things for a while.
I watch NTSC 4:3 broadcast material in the Panny's "JUST" and "ZOOM" modes, depending on content. I find the slight edge distortion of the JUST mode very easy to get used to, and the overall effect of TV in 16:9 is actually more cinematic and involving.
As far as movies, I've always been a purist and expected to watch all my 4:3 stuff in OAR. Sometimes I do, but occasionally I actually ZOOM 4:3 films. For instance, I just watched "The Day The Earth Stood Still" zoomed to fill the screen (no geometric distortion). In widescreen 16:9 mode it had a more pleasing "I'm at the cinema" impact that easily mitigated any "I'm missing a few tiny details in the frame edge" worries.
That said, I always watch 2:35:1 widescreen movies, and variations thereof, in OAR.
- Rich H.
They look pretty good. Mind I am using a year old NEC led screen. What do blacks look like? When I use my computer for DVDs, I find that it looks great, except on movies like Dark City/Addams Family etc. Black levels are tough for LCD screens. I wonder if it is an issue with Plasma?
Estes,Black levels on the Panasonic-based plasmas (that includes other brands using the Panasonic manufactured glass) have excellent black levels...neck in neck with CRT blacks. Mine is a Panasonic and you can probably see from the screen shots that there is a very nice, wide range of contrast with deep blacks.
Rich H.
Hi Rich: Yes blacks do look nice on your set. I guess what I am referring to is that on "dark" movies, most TVs lose all the details and everything is a blob of darkness with only the actors faces viewable. It happens on my LCD screen, but less so on my direct view TV.I was wondering what you thought of the LCD tvs that Sharp is marketing. They have a 36" model out now and I would be tempted. Also it is less expensive than Plasmas!
...and contrast, not black levels.I've seen the Sharps (pretty fair, pretty pricey per square inch, motion artifacts), as well as the Sony Grand Wega IIIs RP LCDs (nice, only fair shadow detail), and the Panasonic LCD RPs (very blue/grey blacks before calibration) and I'd have to say the current Rich'e 42" ED Panasonic plasma would be my preference: better blacks, as good or better shadow detail, more natural movement, higher contrast.
EED plasmas this size are not that expensive, BTW... you can find this panel online fro about $3700 delivered. I would take it over any comparably sized LCD. $2900 gets you a 42" Akai from Costco. I wouldn't want anything under 42", persoanlly.
Yes, that's it. Since I am in Canada, getting a decent Plasma is still big bucks, becuase the dollar is weaker than the US and more limited distribution. Getting something across the border is hit & miss as UPS charges large "broker" fees!
It's not what I expected from a non HD model!
As far as feedback goes, my monitor is set very accurately (Thanks Adobe! Lots cheaper than ISF.) and your color looks great to my eye.Is that some sort of edge enhancement, though? (There's some "ringing" adding a perceptible edge around objects on screen) You could try cutting the sharpness down (not necessarily off as you would with CRT's) or turning off VSM (Velocity Scan Modulation) if there's an option.
Great buy though! If I over explained anything -- no offense. It's only that I've found that inmates here have a widely varying amount of technical knowledge.
Steve
Steve,Yes, there is edge enhancement on some images. I occasionally left my DVD player with the sharpness a tiny bit up for the screen shots (meant to turn it down). Also, there is edge enhancement in many of the DVDs as well, which can't be helped.
Keep in mind that, in looking at these screen shots you're essentially "pushing your nose up against the screen." Do that with any display and you'll likely find artifacts not visible from a normal viewing distance.
All my controls are set to produce a realistic a picture from about 9 to 10 feet away. From that distance, the occasional edge enhancement or ringing does not intrude. (Try looking at one of the small size screen shot images from a little over 3 ft from your monitor, and you should see the artifacts fade while the picture becomes smoother, more life-like, which is how I experience the image).
Thanks for your comments.
Rich H.
Did you have your ISF calibrated?Alan
Alan,Yes, I have had the plasma professionally ISF calibrated. Although, funny thing is I prefer my own settings most of the time. The ISF calibrated image looks "cinematic," while my settings look more "realistic." (And no, I'm not talking about leaving the settings anywhere near factory "torch" mode).
So what do people think? I was hoping the folks on this board would be more forthcomming with feedback. (I'd also enjoy hearing from Victor and Rich or anyone else who has perceived plasma quality to be sub-par).
Cheers,
Rich H.
I'm searching for a qualified ISF tech over here in Germany. I purchased my NEC 42MP3 last year while I was still stationed up in Alaska. If anyone knows of a qualified ISF tech in the Stuttgart area please speak up :)Thanks
Alan
Hi Rich,
what model exactly is yours? How much does it cost?
Raul
Raul,My plasma model is the Panasonic TH-42PWD4UY - last year's model. The current model is the TH-42PWD5UY (5UY), which is essentially the same display. You can check out the specs and a typical on-line price here:
http://www.plasmadepot.com/tvs/th42pwd4u.html
Panasonic also makes a higher resolution "HD" model of this display, which is a little more expensive.
- Rich H.
Darn, sorry for the double posting. How do you delete a post?Rich H.
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