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I'm looking for the best sounding HT 7.1 pre/pro for under about $5000 U.S. new (of course I would want it cheaper second hand).I currently use a Placette preamp for stereo, and it gives wonderful sound! I don't want to degrade the quality of stereo sound, but I would prefer if I could use just the pre/pro as my preamp. I also want excellent 5.1 pass-through for multi-channel SACD. And ... I listen to 7.1 home-theatre, and excellent sound for HT is also a must (though the analog is more important). I don't really need video switching, if the unit does only audio (like the Bryston SP1.7).
I've been looking at the Bryson SP1.7, and the Classe SSP-60 . (I live in Canada, so these give me a good bang for the buck). I haven't heard either, though.
Which 7.1 pre/pro units should I be looking at?
Thanks,
Neil
Follow Ups:
buying anything from Proceed or Levinson. They have a terrible, terrible history of no customer support in the home theater area. You could probably find a discounted Proceeed AVP that fits your budget. But I'd recommend Lexicon instead.I repeat, avoid Proceed & Levinson.
Don't waste your money. HT and hirez audio are rapidly converging on two standards that will directly and significantly affect pre/pros.On the HT front, HDMI (next-gen DVI/DHCP) is around the corner. Component video down-rezzing is widely believed to be in the cards in the near future for HD sources via cable, DBS and HD-DVD. Paying big bucks for component switching now will leave you in the lurch when DVI (HDMI) switching becomes the rule.
On the hirez audio front, crappy player-based bass management and time alignment systems are on the way out. As these systems have been perfected within the pre/pros themselves, it only remains to get the hirez signal into the processor digitally. An industry standard interface to do this was adopted late last year and is appearing in products right now. To date, the only processor that can handle IEEE 1394 hirez is the Pioneer 49TXi receiver and it does so imperfectly. That said, you should expect high-end pre/pros and flagship receivers to adopt the hirez digital interface within the next year.
Upcoming HT and hirez audio innovations both mitigate against spending big dollars on today's flawed implementations. To the extent any particular manufacturer commits to an upgrade path that deals with these issues, you may be inclined to purchase now and upgrade later. Good luck.
Austin
...
Antonio Melo Ribeiro
I'm wondering if some of these new advances in digital standards aren't wishful thinking. HDMI or Firewire will only become useful if they are widely adopted by the industry. It seems to me that firewire was just around the corner 2 years ago when I was looking into HT systems. Well, it didn't happen. There is too much bickering between various manufacturers, and with the media companies (i.e. Holywood).I don't expect to see meaningful digital standards for another 3 years at least. In the meantime, it would be nice to enjoy multichannel and 2 channel audio, as well as HT with the highest quality possible.
I've considered going for a Bel Canto Pre6 just for audio, and routing the processor through it "bypass". However, it seems to me that I can get a Bryston SP1.7 for the same price, which has similar quality sound, and is also a HT audio processor (not video). As long as they provide future upgrades, I should be okay.
Hey Neil,You figure three years, if ever. I figure within one year. If you're right, I've given up nothing (separate HT/2-channel). If I'm right, you've paid a whole lot of bucks for a box for the kid's room.
You need to understand that when the digital interfaces (audio AND video) come into use, they are absolutely going to SLAM the market! Anyone caught without HDMI (video) and 1394 (audio) products won't be able to sell a single box. If you want to see this effect in action, check out the major HT forums and pay attention to recommendations on DVI/HDCP-enabled video displays. It'll be the same for audio very shortly.
What's going to be amusing is seeing the a'philes scrambling to reconfigure their analog systems when they discover they need 1394 processors to decode hirez.
Austin
If you recall I've had thoughts about a denon 3803 or similarly-priced receiver. What does your crystal ball say about the migration of these features down the product lines? Will the manufacturers have to go with these features across the product line more quickly than usual for new tech? In light of these new techs what is your recommend for purchase assuming I don't find I need a new amp one minute after I fire up my new speakers in a couple of days?
WH,As I've posted previously to you, I don't think you can do better than the 3803 for a full-featured, decent sounding CURRENT GENERATION receiver that will drive your speakers given the contraints we discussed at a price that's hard to beat.
As far as the ubiquity of future digital A/V across product lines, the basic economic reality is that content producers have designed and deployed digital A/V as well as the new distribution channels in order to copy-protect their intellectual property. With this in mind, I see several things converging that will result in a rapid transition to copy-protected devices processing high-def video and hirez audio in the very near future.
Let's take video first. Content pipelines have been undergoing rapid development and are now ready for deployment in carrying copy-protected HDTV from the content producers to the consumer. Cable is in an extremely stong position (75% coverage & unlimited bandwidth) with DBS playing some serious catch-up. OTA is also under the gun due to the FCC-mandated digital transition. Several additional HD channels have been announced to appear during 2003 - Cinemax, Bravo, HDnet, HGTV as well as an HD Video on Demand service to name a few. This is in addition to NBC,ABC,CBS,PBS,UPN,HBO,SHO,ESPN,DSC already putting out HDTV. The recent cable operators agreement coupled with FCC-induced OTA HDTV tuners in future TV sets and the adoption of DVI/HDCP as the standard HDTV video interface have pretty much settled things on the equipment front. The public is now aware of HDTV, wants it and is buying it. The only remaining items are the ability to record HDTV and HD-DVD. The first is currently being addressed in the next generation of PVRs (Tivo and the like). The second is being designed as we speak and unlike some other technologies, HD-DVD will be backward compatible with current DVD-Videos.
On the audio front, you have much the same situation. The studios need to move from unprotected to copy-protected media. At the same time, it would nice (for them) if they could get us to rebuy our collections. Hey - how about compelling, high-resolution multichannel mixes of all our favorites? That's what DVD-Audio and SACD are all about. But there's some major problems holding up their widespread adoption. First, most people will NOT implement multichannel audio setups just to listen to music. Second, the current crop of players and processors are simply too complex to set up in multichannel mode. The solution to the first problem lies in the video realm. If you can get folks to buy into HDTV and (HD)-DVD, this implies a multichannel audio capability. By piggy-backing hirez onto this existing infrastructure, you've leveraged people's investments and given them "something for nothing". The second problem (hookup complexity) is easily solved by implementing a simple copy-protected digital interface for audio. The i's and t's are being dotted and crossed at this moment to achieve such an interface.
So what's the impact of these forces on upcoming processors and players? Simple - processors are going to get smarter and players are going to get dumber. It makes no sense technically or financially to put DSPs, DACs and output stages in players when they're already in pre/pros and receivers. Players will become transports and carousel-type universal transports at that. A/V pre/pros and receivers will sport both IEE1394 hirez audio interfaces and DVI/HDCP (HDMI) video interfaces as well as some legacy interfaces such as component video, S-video, RCA audio, TOSlink, etc. There will be up/down/side conversion between these interfaces in a strict matrix that is dictated by the content producers. IOW, you will not be able to convert HD on DVI to HD on component. Similarly, DVD-Audio will not be available on TOSlink. There will also be a gizmo that I call an "Audio Processor". It will support a subset of the A/V processor - specifically decoding for SACD and DVD-Audio without all the video and HT stuff. This will be a niche item and will be priced just as stratospherically as a'phile gear is presently.
Finally, there will be no resistance to this convergence. Nobody cares about obsoleting the "weirdo" stereo equipment out there. The future is HDTV and multichannel audio. And it's coming on fast.
My crystal ball grows cloudy...
Austin
If your predictions are correct (some of which I doubt- rember, they are competing for our entertainment dollar), will mean vinyl will be reborn as the music medium of choice for high end- SACD and DVD-A will be relegated to suuport of video. Not very exciting prospects for audiophiles.gjg
I have the TAG wich, besides beeing very good both with music and films, is upgradeable, and its history proves it unlike the others...A friend tested the Krell Showcase, and said it is not very good, they are still learning...
Meridien is very good too, so is Bryston, at least for music...
I would get one of this 3...
Antonio Melo Ribeiro
Someone told me the Krell was very good. I am not sure which model, but I believe the Showcase is about $4K. I still think a 2 channel preamp looped into a processor for movies is the way to go, but I have been debating the McCormack MAP preamp which has two 6 channel analog inputs. They even have a surround type system that you could use with stereo or mono sources for TV. Just get a do it all DVD player for DVD Audio and SACD and use them to decode DD and DTS. It is another way to try to acopmplish HT and keep good 2 channel and SACD sound. I have not auditioned one and don't know if I want to spend that much, but some others may have tried it.
They are top notch for HT with their proprietary 7.1 (EZ) and their Trifield surround mode is arguably the best surround mode out there. It expands the soundstage while at the same time making the imaging more accurate. All w/o the surround gimmick that plagues many popular surround formats. It also has ambisonic playback, which blows away any multichannel recording format out there.The 561 is 7.1, but would require 2 meridian digital speakers to complete the side channels. That unit is $5k new. The 568 supports 7.1 analog output, and it doesn't have video switching. It doesn't have 5.1 input, so you would have to go via some 5.1 preamp route for your SACD. It is way above $5k new but could be had for less than $5k used.
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