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If one were to compare the picture quality of the latest generation rear projection HD DLP sets, how would the picture quality compare to a lower-end (budget?) EDTV Plasma screen? In order of importance to me:DVD Playback
Regular Analog Cable TV
HDTV via OTA tuner, satellite, or digital Cable TVI've see some attractively priced and very good looking DLP sets from Samsung and Mitsubishi. Just wondering how they would compare to 'entry level' $2500 EDTV Plasmas?
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Follow Ups:
I have looked at several HD and ED sets. I personally think that every EDTV plasma has a better or equal picture to any DLP, Lcos, CRT HD I have seen. Plus it has the best picture off axis where many of the others look like crap. I think it is a no brainer. ED plasma.
Took a chance and picked up a relatively inexpensive ($2100 + tax) 42" LG RU-42PX11/H plasma set that is 'altitude rated' to 9000-feet. LG is a Korean company that is coming on very strong in consumer electronics. They have an excellent reputation with cellphones and they're making good progress in other areas. The LG was the only set in the store that came with a standard 2 year in-home repair/replacement warranty that didn't cost extra. There's also an LG authorized service center just 12 miles from where I live.The store didn't have that highly rated (per CR magazine) Sony EDTV plasma. There were even 'lower end' sets available vs the LG that just didn't do it for me. In fact, those Philips sets (that cost more) were not that great even though they have a big name behind them. This LG plasma was also one of the brightest plasmas available and although it may look a bit washed out and not as saturated as some, that was quickly and easily corrected by turning the brightness down.
Some important factors for me in my decision:
0)Couldn't spend more than $2500.
1)Must be bright; Brighter than DLP or LCD RPTV's for daytime use in a bright open room.
2)Must not buzz like a chain saw at high altitude (as most plasmas are not designed for up high places like Colorado).
3)Must be reasonably good quality. The physical build quality on this unit is excellent. We'll see how the electronics and screen hold up.
4)Must look as good as other EDTV plasmas. Most of them looked better than anything I've owned in the past. The LG looked better than Philips, Zenith, Samsung. The LG looked about the same as the Panasonic which cost more.
5)And a given, it must cost less than an HD plasma. The HD plasmas were better looking in some cases but at distance, the differences were less obvious. But at almost twice the price for HD for a given size, I decided on EDTV this time around. A true 'videophile' would not have done this!
6)I wanted to buy local for various reasons including the need for a 'specialized' set that is known to perform at high altitude. This LG plasma is the /H model where the "H" specifically means High Altitude. Plus I needed the set delivered and the other HUGE CRT set moved. The two guys who delivered the plasma moved the 200-Lb+ CRT set without hesitation.
The LG plasma displays DVDs just fine through the DVI port which handles anything you throw at it... 480p 720p 1080i. When I feed it an HD signal at 720p or 1080i from my OTA HDTV tuner, the picture is clearly better than any DVD. To answer a question about the 480p resolution and how it handles HDTV, it is clear to me that even an HDTV signal on an EDTV set looks great... like I said, better than a DVD.... even an 'upconverted' DVD as my player will output 720p and 1080i via DVI port. The LG plasma also has two sets of RGB inputs plus a PC HD15 "VGA" port.
Only complaint so far... LG needs to get their act together with a better remote control. Some of the button labels are rather cryptic. I actually had to read the manual to understand some of the meanings. I can usually figure these things out w/o the manual. For example, the Jump button on the LG remote is labeled Review. Maybe I'm just used to all the Sony sets I've owned in the past but Review didn't make any sense to me. There are other weird examples I can't think of right now.
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Myself, I'm into 2 channel only, analog, but the wife wanted a new HD set. Went around for 3 weeks comparing, looking, talking. I thought the Samsung 5085 (Pedistol DLP set) was more natural looking than most LCD or plasma sets. Plasma looked too cartoonish to me (but I did love the Pioneer Elite Plasma, just would not spend 6k) and this DLP set had the darkest blacks and brightest pic over most others I looked at.
Was out of stock and should be delivered in another 2 weeks.
Steve
SOS
That Samsung pedistol DLP is probably the best looking I've seen (in DLP) but that pedistol was a real waste of space for me. I need equipment shelves below the screen. Had I gone with DLP, one of the other Samsungs would have been my top choice.
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Agree about the space but once I compared the pic quality to the other Sammy's, same size or even their 46", I was convinced. I have a dedicated audio only studio so sound was not my concern.
It get delivered this Saturday :-)
Steve
SOS
Have fun with that new top rated top-of-the-line Sammy! :-)
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Abe, is it top rated? I've not seen a review on this model, not that that would every persuade me, it was my eyes that told the story.
Even with audio, buying based on reviews has never proven anything but lost $$$$ IMHO. Everyone has their bias, including me :-)
OK I may have jumped the gun but to my eyes it was top-rated in the DLP range of sets that I saw.
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first the delivery guys couldn't even fiqure out how to hook thinks up with the cable box for HD, I had to show them!
Factory settings had to be slightly adjusted for best pic. Sitting about 7-81/2 feet away, very natural looking set, compared to any Plasma which is just to cartoonish for my tastes (Except Pioneer Elite series which is just too much $$$ for watching one to two shows a week).
Rented Terminal in wide format last night, pic quality is extremely good, this through a modest inexpensive Sony player.
Wife LOVES the set, and if she's hapy, it makes me happy :-)
I really enjoy concert videos on my Plasma with DTS surround through my A/V setup.Watched Crossroads Guitar Festival DVD last night with Eric Clapton, Robert Cray, Buddy Guy, B.B. King, James Taylor, Joe Walsh, Santana, John Mayer, Jonny Lang, Steve Vai, ZZ Top, etc.
If you like rock / blues / guitar, this is a must have DVD. The audio quality was superb and the video was very good. The evening shots were sometimes a tad bit grainy but daytime video was crystal clear.
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The way I understand it, LG has always been the parent company of Zenith; they just made thing simpler.Congrats on the new set, sounds like the high altitude feature was the deal winner in your case. When you do decide to upgrade later, you will have a great set to use anywhere in the house (unlike my dinosaur RPTV, which I might be able to shoehorn in the master bedroom)
I would recommend one of the excellent universal remotes to take the place of the LG's. I'm using the Theater Master MX 500, bought on close out. Here's a great site for more info:
LG is Lucky Goldstar; the same "Goldstar" you saw on electronics at at K-mart a some years back. Had big success selling computer monitors. I think they only bought the rights to the Zenith name and logo; Sylvania too. They've come a long way from $88 TVs and computer monitors.
One of the sales people told me that LG bought out Zenith and continued improving on the plasma technology. There was in fact a Zenith branded plasma in the showroom along with the LG and LG looked better. Go figure.Here's an interesting issue that cropped up but not a major problem. There are a couple of remote codes on the LG that are shared with my PS Audio preamp! One of them shuts down the preamp and the other skews the balance to the right. This shouldn't be a problem under 'normal' use. I was testing out all the features and making adjustments to the LG picture when I ran into this. Under normal operation these controls wouldn't be used.
Thanks for the info on the Theater Master MX500. I'm not yet familiar with it. I have an old original Philips Pronto that has helped to minimize remote clutter.
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I think I've commented before that for a variety of source and selection reasons, HD has a long, long way to go before it should be THE primary criteria in selecting a normal-duty (non-HT) TV. After seeing the prices for DLP (and plasma) I bought a superb CRTRP HD set on close-out as a bridge until HDTV technology settles down and content improves. I paid less than 50% of what it sold for one year ago. No way I'm investing a quick-to-devalue $5K to watch the stuff thats out there.If you have a Good Guys in your neck of the woods, I saw a 42" Sylvania (Low-end LG?) ED plasma on sale this week for $1600 that looked just as good as any of its competitors sitting in the display.
Find yourself a copy of the latest Consumer Reports where they did some serious testing of the various flat screen TV's. THey really liked the Sony plasma EDTV better than a lot of plasma HDTVs they tested and at around $2600 was a bargain. They said the only real catch with the EDTV they liked was that if you sat closer than 8 ft you might see a bit of graininess a true HDTV wouldnt have, but at 8 ft or beyond the picture was very similar. They were also fascinated by the $1500 Sony conventional CRT as having a really fine picture--better than the DLP units by far, assuming you can handle the 2 ft depth.The DLP units cant really be hung on the wall but require a table. Once you do that the depth of the CRT units matters less.
Apparently DLP units lose their bulbs every year or two. Plasma life remains something of a question mark too. The CRT units seem most reliable of the three.
I'm often critical of Consumer Reports Electronics testing, but I think this time they really did excellent work sorting through all this.I should admit that I have the SONY CRT-based 46-in unit (Since may 2004) and am very pleased with it, but I was surprised to find that CR rated that picture as good or better than the other types in a head to head comparison.
Plasma life (actually, it's hours to half brightness) was about 30k hours nearly 5 years ago. In 2003, half brightness avanced to 60k hours. When Panasonic rolls out their 8th generation models (the 8UY commercial series), half brightness will be rated at 100k hours -- equal to flat panel LCD. And even at half brightness, the user menu provides controls to account for this fall-off in light output.For 30k hours half brightness, that's 4 hours per day for 20.5 years. Who keeps displays for 20 years? The average display is replaced about every 7 years.
Now, are they still susceptible to burn-in? Yes, but the advances of each generation makes this issue less of a concern.
I don't know where this "7-year" average comes from but the vast majority of people only replace displays of any type when their current display breaks down and is too expensive to bother fixing. My Sony KV-27 series TV set is 8 years old and does need to be replaced because the CRT tube is going bad (one electron gun went weak). If the tube was OK, I'd run this baby into the ground as long as possible; it may not be HD in picture quality but it is damn good when fed a signal from DirecTV. I'm still going to try and run this set a bit longer because the new digital sets are not nearly as reliable as the old analog sets (yet). Further price drops is another incentive to wait on HD sets too.As for the other displays, here is how long I've had them:
NEC 13" VGA Monitor - still going strong since 1989 (~ 16 years)
Mag Innovision 17" Monitor - 12 years old but is starting to show signs that the power supply is on shaky ground.
Hitachi 13" color TV - this is at least 25 years old and going strong.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Mr. Spindlelegs
"A record unplayed is a record wasted!"
a niche consumer or a relative of Fred Sanford.
a relative of George Jefferson. By squeezing more milage out of the TV set, I can afford to move on up to the East side. (LOL)Mr. Spindlelegs
"A record unplayed is a record wasted!"
Was a Huge sony console I got "free" as a premium for putting a bank CD away for 5 years. The fixed interest rate was 10.75 %. So the date was about 1980. It finally died in May of 2004--never had a single repair-- and I got the new Sony 46 inch RPTV then.
I don't expct this one to last that long.Interestingly, in terms of overall size the 46 incher fits the space the old console vacated very well, and I think most people who owned a pecan grained console would be happy.
They'll never be the same...
That old Sony of yours is a fine looking piece that blends well with furniture. My parents had an old 1980's Hitachi console TV with the wood enclosure that never actually died. The picture just got worse and couldn't be adjusted so they finally swapped it out last year.
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While staring at a dead TV set and seated on the sofa on "the Culhanes of Cornfield county" as they dont have electricity yet."I woulda never bought that TV set had I known it was Electric. I thought it was Gas!"
Sadly that Sony went to the recyclers, pecan veneer cabinet and all!
Thankfully, the new one fits the old space well (above)
just because the level of radiation of the newer CRTs is MUCH lower than the old ones....
Mr. Spindlelegs
"A record unplayed is a record wasted!"
Isn't that why Mom used to always tell us not to sit too close to the TV? ;-)
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which is DVD quaility? And the HDTVs have a higher resolution of 720p or 1080i? I don't see how an EDTV can ever look as good with the same HD source as the HD set. They may have a great picture, but that's like saying there's no difference between DVD and HD. What am I missing here?
I don't think they look "just as good" literally but they can be VERY VERY close... (at about 1/2 the price for EDTV). The differences are less noticeable at normal viewing distances than up close. Even HD plasmas don't provide a 1:1 correlation in terms of the number of available pixels required to handle a true High Definition signal. There's some processing magic that goes on within the set to correctly interpolate the signal across the available pixels. Some sets do this better than others so if you take an excellent EDTV vs a less than stellar HD plasma, it is quite possible that the two will look comparable with an HD signal. I know that's over simplified but that's how I understand it.As for 480p from a DVD player (until the hi-rez players come on strong), I wonder if there's any benefit at all going with a HD plasma vs ED.
In any case, if you go to a store and compare side by side, you will see a difference but I cant' seem to justify a doubling in price to get such an incrementally small gain..... especially while the technology is still maturing and the prices continue to plummet.
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applies to video as well as audio.One and a half years ago I went with a bulky CRT based HD-RPTV because it gave the biggest HD picture for the $$$. The only issue I have to worry about is burn-in, so I am limited to the amount of digital 4:3 material I watch over the air. I can stretch whatever non-digital signal that comes out of the cable box, but that's a compromise. I would consider the burn-in issue with my next TV purchase. Even after the so-called “analog shutoff”, most broadcast programming will still be 4:3, with bars added.
I've read talk of 1080p sets coming available, and there are more upconverting DVD player options. I'm thinking about trying one of those inexpensive NeuNeo DVD players myself. I wouldn't be surprised if HD-DVD players came out within the next year or so. And there is a ton more HD programming now than there was just a year ago.
One observation about TV shopping. This last Christmas I was shopping for a cheap 27" HDTV set for my son's Xbox setup. I noticed a large difference in picture quality of the same set, at different locations of the same big box store. I've even read of store personal "tweaking" certain sets to push sales toward a different model.
Look at em side by side in a Best Buy or Circuit City.
Even though plasma EDTV has less resolution than the new DLPs it usually looks better when compared directly.Also be aware if you do lean towards DLP there are two different chip versions: HD2+ and HD3 with HD2+ being considerably cheaper but with less contrast.
The Samsung "pedestal" model has the HD3 chip and that's why it costs $3500.
Music is Emotion
I've been looking at both Plasma EDTV and HD DLP sets. I thought that HD2+ was actually a higher-end DLP chip than the newer HD3. In any case, there are a couple Samsung models that look stunning... but in a brighter room, the Plasma is still the clear winner.Some will argue that a home theater environment shouldn't be bright and I agree. The reason I mention it though is because which ever set I decide on, it will be placed in a room that is very bright and open during the day.
I'm still undecided but I'm starting to lean toward Plasma EDTV - which still looks stunning to me at a reasonable distance from the screen.... and bright enough for use in open daylight.
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Whoops sorry I think you're right the HD3 DLP is cheaper.
Just saw the Panasonic EDTV plasma yesterday and it does look really good. If you're not planning on watching HDTV then it could be fine.
Music is Emotion
even if he IS planning to watch HDTV it looks fantastic... specially once dialed-in.
Well as you know, you and i have similar components. In October i bought the commercial model of the panny ED plasma TH-42PWD6UY. I use the 5900 for video, and my HR10-250 HD DirecTivo for OTA and Sat SD/HD signals.I had Gregg Loewen come out to my house last week to calibrate my panny (he did my previous CRT about 2 years ago). After a very short time of service menu calibration using some Milori colorimeter.... the set was done (only some minor blue-push). Gregg said that the image on my system was about the best he has seen...
One caveate is that i am using a DVD0 iScan HD scaler with the 5900 (and VCR) because the combination of the 5900 and the pannies produce some noticeable macroblocking issues (due to the 5900 built-in de-interlacer) So, i send component 480i to the scaler and then DVI-D to the panny....
I can tell you that i am *VERY* happy with the results. The image on the panny is nothing short of stunning.... it even looks great with a SD signal from DirecTV... The HD stuff is unreal on this EDTV.
BTW, i just recently got some Spendor S5E speakers and the are really nice with the 5900, 3805, HCA-2 combo... I'm actually done tweaking for a while!
I also looked at the Sammy and Mits. For my eyes, I preferred the Toshiba 52HMX84, a 52" set with dual HDMI inputs. The Sammy was nice, but Toshi was brighter and blacks were blacker. I compared side by side with Mits and Sammy. I also started with looking at the Panasonic EDTV plasmas, but was turned away by the burn in problem and the limited shelf life of 8-10 years. (DLP's simply need a $300 bulb replaced every 5 years and they look good as new).I paid $2300 for the Toshi, which retails for $2600-3000. I will say that without a progressive scan DVD or without HDTV (which is to say almost everything I watch), the picture quality is good but not great. The Sammy and Mits make regular digital cable look better.
BUT...by 2007, all broadcasts must be HDTV enabled (FCC mandates this). So don't buy a $2500 tv for today's picture, buy it for the life of the TV which will include HDTV.
THE place to inquire is www.avsforum.com. It's the asylum for video nuts.
I'm with you on that one.I'm out shopping right now and leaning toward the Samsung DLP. We have an EDTV plasma from Gateway in the living room, (my wife's domain), and have sold our 4:3 50" rear projection that was in our audio / video room, (my domain). I'm very impressed with the little shopping I have done so far and viewing of the rear projection DLP's.
I would like to also add to this the question; "does DLP have any side effects?". I have heard of rainbow effects with DLP. ?? Are these real?
I wanted a DLP when I first saw them but I spent hours in many different
stores watching hours of DLP's & plasma's.
I couldn't own either. DV still rules.GTF
DLP is so much better than it was even a year ago. The new Samsung sets are stunning. I've read about this 'rainbow effect' but haven't seen it myself - on the Samsung or Mitsubishi sets I've been looking at.That said, I'm still undecided. I like the idea of an easy to lift 42" Plasma in case I ever want to move it or eventually wall mount it in a bedroom in a couple years.
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It's been estimated that between 5 - 10% of the population sees the rainbows on DLP sets. What is usually not mentioned is that many people who say that they don't actually see them are affected by DLP sets in other ways. Symptoms vary, but can be as minor as headaches and eye fatigue to as major as dizziness and nausea/vomiting.So before you decide on a DLP set, spend a good deal of time watching SD, DVD and HDTV material. The more time you spend watching, the better off you will be in making a decision. If you still don't see rainbows, you're half-way there. The other half? The rest of the family.
I'm not trying to steer you from DLP: I just don't want you to make a decision that has the potential to to negatively affect other members of your family -- or you! If neither you nor other family members experience any problems, you're home free.
Just don't try to mount it on a wall...
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