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We went the rounds trying to deceide what to buy in a high def set. I surfed, read, etc. I thought I would post this to let others know our results in hopes if helping them as they go through the same...We have a low end EDTV plasma from Gateway, (OEM Sampo), mounted on our wall upstairs. It's operating as a monitor with component outputs of a HDTV receiver from Cox cable. Nice picture, horrible customer service, and early screen burn-in after only 1 year from 4:3 broadcasts. We will never buy from Gateway, or a plasma, again.
We had a 4:3 52" projection downstairs, (the music / HT room). Ok to watch, good for the general HT thing, popcorn with the family, but I hated how it affected the sound of my Magnepan MG12s. We sold it and went shopping.
We replaced the audio rack with a NICE audio/video rack and placed a Sony Grand Wega 42" LCD projection Tv on it, (model KDF-42WE655), Sony's TV stand did not do justice to my audio gear. :)
The carry out the door price on the Sony was great! We elected to go with the HDTV cable card instead of a outboard receiver. the Cox cable guy showed up with a Motorola cable card and WOW, it was truly "plug & play". The TV is smart and removed the internal tuner settings replacing it with cable card status and options. It was working 10 minutes after he plugged it in. We spent more time talking and drooling over the HD picture than actual installation time.
The entire rack / Sony combo onyl comes out 20 inches from the back wall, (20 for stand, 16 for Sony). It nolonger effects my MG12s as the HUGE 52" did. It does not sound any different from when I was listening to them without a TV in the room. Yaaah! I'm audio happy!
But the BIG message here is the Sony picture is absolutly unbelievable! HDTV broadcasts on the Sony BLOW AWAY the plasma EDTV upstarirs. It does for my eyes what the Maggies do for my ears.
Top this off with the fact that I have raised WAF in the entire room.
I know there may be better, and everyone has their favorites, but if you are out shopping the Sony brand is well worth your time and consideration.
Thanks for reading...
Follow Ups:
I am glad you are happy with your 42” Sony projection LCD TV.I would like to make a few points.
Comparing a current model premium LCD TV (your Sony) with early generation cheap plasma (gateway) is pointless.
Also, comparing any low-end TV, of any design, to that of a high-end TV, of any design, is pointless. It is irrefutable that if you place a high-end 42” plasma beside an entry-level 42” RP-LCD TV the plasma will win hands down. The converse is also true.
It is also imperative for any rational comparison of technologies to compare TV’s of the SAME size & the SAME generation. Comparing a 42” TV against a 52” TV for the purpose of claiming one technology is better than the other is fundamentally flawed.
It is very true that early model plasma TV’s did run quite warm and did suffer burn-in. Cheaper entry model plasma TV’s still do, though not as much as previously.
I have a 42” & 50” current generation plasma TV’s. They run very much cooler than earlier models and I don’t believe suffer from burn-in. The plasma I had previous to these two was top-of-the- line when I purchased it about 3 years ago. It did not suffer burn-in but did run much warmer than either of my current two.
I have no doubt that your current model Sony RP – LCD TV is/was far superior to your previous TV’s, as it should be.
The point of my post is that if you compare your premium RP - LCD Sony TV with a premium plasma TV you may very well have a different opinion. I do agree with you though that the Sony RP-LCD TV is good value.
Smile
Sox
I've used a 42" Panasonic 480p plasma for ~ 4 years now, at least 8 hours/day every day...probably more than that.I had the set professionally tuned: it was shipped way "hot" from the factory. Had I left my plasma with the factory settings I'm sure it would show some burn by now. What kind of idiot buys a high-end display and then doesn't bother to get it professionally set-up?
These sets currently sell for $1700 new in box.
I still haven't seen anything better, sure, the super-large-screen displays look better in 1080i because you need the up-scaling for such a large display, but the picture is not better, and in fact, it's mostly a lot worse. If you are sitting 10 to 16 feet away, a 42" 480p plasma is as good as it gets. Sure, the 50" plasmas in 720p are nice--if your source is perfect--which it rarely is if you soruce from cable or most "regular" TV feeds. If all I watched was DVDs or off-the-air digital 1080i live feeds (the Olympics were great!!!!) then I'd get a bigger plasma. But from where I sit, about 12-13 feet away, 42" is perfect!
There is no burn-in evident on my set, and the colors are as halicinatingly rich and intense as they were when new.
The Plasma Fatal Flaw: I admit, plasmas do not do the subtle definitions in deep grays/blacks...not like a CRT, but neither does anything else. CRT rules when it comes to Film Noir.
You gotta take care of your set: get it professionally tuned for a few hundred bucks, and you will enjoy it more, AND ...it will last a lifetime. You get what you pay for, so pay for the pro tuning.
Don't equate your Gateway problems with plasmas in general. That was one of the cheapest first generation plasmas on the market. Like anything else, there are cheap junk products in any category and Gateway is known to sell cheap junk.Although all of the technologies are improving, I still lean toward DLP and plasma for large screens today.
I believe that direct view LCD technology will eventually over take plasma in performance and price but it's not there yet. It's still more expensive and doesn't look as good. When it crosses over to the point where it looks better and is priced about the same or less, I'll jump on it.
Not looking to bash plasma, the flames are pointed at Gateway.However, in the price range of the Sony RP-LCD any plasma we found would still be have the "burn-in" issue.
I must admit though we are also disappointed at the Bic lighter engineering of our plasma. When it expires due to dimming, throw it away as repair costs will not be warranted. We enjoy the fact the Sony RP-LCD has a user replaceable bulb.
And, it may be different with outher manufactures, but the Gateway plasma runs VERY HOT! I'm surprised they don't have boxer fans inside them.
These are just personal decision points I wanted to share with others searching for their own answers of what and why to buy.
BTW, all of the new technologies and big screens can benefit from line conditioning. I run the Richard Grays, and an older model of the Vans Evers (he quit the consumer market). There is significant improvement in the picture quality in terms of color staturation, detail, and a lowering of motion artifacts. The better sets do seem to have better power supplies but all flat screen technologies seem to suffer from the compact nature of the screens.
Come to think of it my PLC's cost almost as much as the screen itself.....8^)
Stu
Are you sure he quit the consumer market?.. because he has a website up where he is still selling quite a few products.www.vansevers.com
I agree that the Sony KDF-42WE655 delivers a great picture; it's the best I've seen in back projection TV sets. The viewing angle is nice and wide for a back projection set. Unfortunately, the picture quality rapidly breaks down (pixelation) when playing scenes with rapid action such as sports. I'm not sure if the problem is related to the small LCD screen elements not being able to refresh fast enough or if this is a digital compression artifact. I had to disqualify this set from consideration for this reason. Otherwise, this is the best TV of choice to me given viewing distances in the living room. Too bad there is no easy way to resolve the question of root cause of the pixelation without buying the set.Now the shopping list is narrowed down to either the Sharp 37" LCD flat panel, the Sony 36" 4:3 WS955 CRT or the Sony 34" 16:9 960XBR CRT.
Mr. Spindlelegs
"A record unplayed is a record wasted!"
B/c when I was shopping for TV's and looked at multiple SONY RPLCD sets in various stores, NONE of the stores had anywhere near satisfactory setup as far as source. In most stores, with fast sports scenes, I did see the "pixellation" and breakups.This is not because of the known slower refresh rate of LCD. It's crappy source problem. Often the multi-spliced DVD/standard def cable feed or the crappy analogue antenna up on the roof of stores.
Ever since I actually brought the Sony RPLCD home, I have NEVER, even ONCE, witnessed a single pixellation or breakup with fast moving sports scenes. I do have good source feeds like Channel Master rooftop HD antenna, DISH 811 HD receiver (but even the crappy DISH SD feed never pixellate with fast scens), and 1080i upsampling DVD player.
Now that is good news to my ears.I saw the pixelation at the HHGregg Superstore on the north side of Indianapolis. This store certainly does have a ton of TVs running off the same feed.
I'm still regularly visiting multiple stores to look for performance patterns in HDTVs. I'll go back to keeping an eye on the 42" Sony. The new 42" Sony RPLCD with the dynamic iris function is supposed to debut this summer. I'm curious to see if that set performs even better. Something to always keep in mind as long as my current TV doesn't croak too soon.
Mr. Spindlelegs
"A record unplayed is a record wasted!"
While it's true that CRT sets offer some of the best picture quality also consider the fact that it's easier to get subjectively better quality from a smaller screen (like the typical 34" CRT screen). I have a 34" Sony XBR 16:9 CRT set and it's outstanding but it's bulky and weighs over 200 pounds!If you need anything larger than about 34", you have no choice but to consider something other than a CRT. The 37" LCD direct view screens are only marginally larger than a 34" CRT but considerably more expensive and not worth the cost for such a small incremental gain in screen size.
If you need anything larger than 34" the next step up should be 42" or larger, IMHO.
I have a 'budget' 42" EDTV plasma screen that I actually enjoy a lot more than my 'high-end' 34" HDTV Sony CRT. Sometimes bigger is better, overall. Just some thoughts to consider. Good luck.
Thanks for the "good luck" wish.The weight of the 34" Sony is a concern. Trying to move my 27" Sony (100 - 110 lbs) is not easy given how the weight is so unevenly distributed. Jump up to a 200 lb version and things are downright scary. Fortunately, I do have the TV stand to handle even the 36" Sony (~ 235 lbs).
I have looked at the ED plasmas and the Panasonic 42" is very nice. The HD Pannies are also very nice but they didn't seem to be a huge jump in performance over the EDs, especially given the price jump. I think my preference of LCD over plasma is due to the difference in the crispness of the image; the Sharp LCDs always win that one it seems.
As long as the current 27" Sony holds up (it is ill), I'll be able to wait for more price drops.
Mr. Spindlelegs
"A record unplayed is a record wasted!"
I put 14 2" ball casters under the SONY stand.
Now I just roll it around.
Gee! Why didn't the stand builder think of this?
BTW it's not SONY who builds their stands.GTF
I have a 34KVXBR910
All LCD TV's have that display problem. Their still working
on making them faster. The pixle's aren't fast enough and
with fast moving pictures they look out of focus a lot.
Yuck I could not live with that.
They say the new $10,000.00 LCD screens are better.
DLP. Rainbow's and they also look like they lose focus with
fast moving screens.Nothing beats a CRT for picture quality.
GTF
Yes, I agree that CRTs, especially the Sony top-of-the-lines, are still the best picture available.Regarding LCDs, I can only say that the Sharp Aquos Flat Panels (32" and larger) did not suffer the fast speed pixelation/loss of focus effect that the Sony 42" back-projection model had. I did not look at the smaller Sharp Aquos LCDs so cannot render an opinion on their picture quality.
The decision will ultimately come down to total dollars. It is very obvious from reading the AVS Forum and this website that HDTVs are not plug'n'play like analog sets. Component matching, clean signal, and calibration are all required to really get the performance out of these TV sets. The question boils down to "How much will it cost to buy the components that are a good match?" I haven't finished the research on that question yet.
Mr. Spindlelegs
"A record unplayed is a record wasted!"
We upgraded to a Pioneer 64" HD-RPTV a couple of years ago, true HD is definitely worth all the hoopla! We use the Cox 6200 HD cable box with component outputs. Sounds like the best thing about your cable card is you don't have to pick and buy a video cable, either component, DVI, etc.
Our set extends 28" from the wall, height is 56". I was planning on trying some MMGs, later upgrading to MG12 maggies. My understanding was that dipoles have less side radiation, and the set wouldn't affect them as much as box speakers. Am I off base here? Also did you try moving the MG12s out in front of the plane of the RPTV screen, and did it make a difference? (that was the other "WAF" advantage of the MMGs, they can be moved against the wall when not in use)
> trying some MMGs, later upgrading to MG12 maggies.
Good way to go, both are very nice.> wouldn't affect them as much as box speakers.
I found the 52" was so large, it in effect, built large boxes where the rear sound of the Maggies were not allowed to breath and open up properly.> Also did you try moving the MG12s out in front of the plane of the RPTV screen, and did it make a difference?
Yes, but the best positioning for the 12s, (or our old MMGs), was not as far as what was needed to clear the old bulky 52" Toshiba rear projection set.> was the other "WAF" advantage of the MMGs, they can be moved against the wall when not in use
It's the overall package. She hated the audio only rack. The audio video stand is a mix of glass and wood. Everthing blends togther better in the room and the picture and sound are both wonderful.
side note: the cable card is nice in that it eliminates all the mess and worries of what type of cabling and output to use on an external cable box.
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