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I was looking at flat panels and rear projection TVs yesterday. I thought the Panasonic Plasma had the best picture, even better than the Pioneer. The salesperson told me the life span is 10,000 hours, then it's off to the dump. Does the picture degrade as it gets closer to the 10,000 hr mark?
Follow Ups:
10,000 hours is allot of TV watching, Dude!!! 10 hours/day, 365 days/ year is only 3650 hours. By the time it begins to degrade it will be obsolete!!! I got my Fujitsu 3 years ago.. it does not have HDMI with the HDCP handshake so it is now obsolete. Don't look at it like a marriage contract. Also if you calibrate the display correctly, not as it looks in the stores where the brightness is at max, then it will be less likely to age prtematurely. And don't believe what the idiots in the big box stores tell you.
i don't trust flat screens. nearly EVERY manufacturer has a leeway of half a dozen or so pixels either being dead or stuck without a unit being considered defective. as far as i'm concerned, just one bad pixel is unforgiveable. CRTs don't have bad pixels. my 20 year old sharp is still working just fine.aside from the pixel issue, how many times have you walked into a store with widescreen sets and seen one or more sets turned off? to me that's a warning sign that about 1:10 units will go bad inside a year or two. i don't think i've ever walked into a store that had 10 or more big screen sets and not seen one turned off.
when i do upgrade, i'll be going with a 34" direct view, unless they eventually start making larger. aside from the reliability, you can't beat CRT contrast and the sharpness spanks projection.
considering that plasma manufacturers aren't required to give you 100% of your pixels new and that so many display sets appear broken, i just don't trust plasma or LCD.
> > > nearly EVERY manufacturer has a leeway of half a dozen or so pixels either being dead or stuck without a unit being considered defective < < <
Find out the store's pixel policy. Many will allow returns for 3 dead pixels, sometimes 2. Also find out about the store's return policy ,if you don't like their pixel policy> > > how many times have you walked into a store with widescreen sets and seen one or more sets turned off? < < <
Never that I can recall-certainly not in the sizes I was looking at.> > > when i do upgrade, i'll be going with a 34" direct view, < < <
That's nice, but that doesn't help those of us looking at 50" and larger sets.
Jack
i'm just adding my 2 cents to the thread, is that ok with you?i AM trying to help you... trying to help you get a superior picture in a reliable package. paying more for an inferior (even if ALL pixels are working) product with a dubious reliability rating is obscene. plasma screens are yet another planned obsolescence scam as is mandatory PC upgrading. sorry... i vomit on ANY screen that costs twice as much with even one dead or stuck pixel. my 20 year old CRT screen STILL has 100% of it's pixels working.
if you want to waste money... go ahead. i won't. THAT'S MY POINT.
sorry... this thread wasn't titled "go with the flow replies only". by all means, you should take every opinion with a grain of salt and do what YOU think is best, but don't knock someone for refusing to join you in your "it's ok if it's broke right out of the box" suicide leap. just 1 dead pixel = broke as far as I'M concerned. i don't care what stores OR manufacturesrs say.
i'm excercising my freedom of speech which allows me the right to disagree. telling people exactly what they want to hear is something i never do, ESPECIALLY when i think it's a lie.
i'm darn sure that every LCD and plasma screen manufacturer would prefer that no-one points out what garbage they're fostering on a complacent consumer public which is all the more reason to add a voice of descention to the mix.
you aren't obligated to listen to it and i stand nothing to gain if you do. i'm just trying to tell the truth.
Budget minded wrote: "i AM trying to help you..."Unfortunately, promoting your own paranoia about digital displays is hardly the way to "help" someone. (You seem to be years behind the ball - "hideous motion smearing" on plasma? That hasn't been a factor for years now. Ask any gamer who owns a plasma).
Here, you need to freshen up. Read this:
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pio/pe/images/portal/cit_3424/273087528Pioneer DTV White Paper - FINAL.pdf
We are in a period of rapid advancement and competition in terms of digital displays. If it's all a big conspiracy theory in your mind and want to stick with CRT, knock yourself out. CRTs still provide great images. But they don't provide everything digital displays provide. The idea that to buy a plasma is to buy an "inferior product" and that you are here to help people not "waste money" in buying plasma is foolishness.
I was a CRT lover and bought my plasma in 2002 and it was perhaps the most satisfying electronics purchase I've made. (That's saying a lot from a long-time, gear-loving audiophile/videophile). Thank goodness I didn't listen to someone trying to stop my "wasting money" and actually got accurate information about plasmas.
Since 2002 I've been on the AVS plasma forum and I don't recall once anyone feeling they "wasted money" in buying their plasma. The vast majority of people are extremely happy. You act like there is some magic technology out there that doesn't suffer defects, or doesn't involve some rolling of the dice. Go to AVS forum, The Home Theater Spot, The Home Theater Forum and you'll see that EVERY technology has it's problems and defective units. That includes the people buying CRTs. (For instance, there have been several problems with the top rated 34" CRT sets from Sony and other manufacturers).Plasmas now are rated to last as long or longer than CRTs, have at least as good burn in resistance, and offer a host of technical advantages over CRTs (and although CRTs still do blacks the deepest, some plasmas are very close - e.g. Panasonic brand - and some micro displays like the newest Sony SXRD rear-projection sets are measuring black levels below what reviewers equipment can measure).
You write: "just 1 dead pixel = broke as far as I'M concerned."
First, dead pixels are extremely rare in plasmas, particularly in the best selling Panasonic brand. And if you are that paranoid, many A/V stores offer "no dead pixel" policies - that is you can exchange your display if it has any dead pixels. And as far as a dead pixel = "broke," from the perspective of a plasma owner who enjoys perfect corner-to-corner geometry and focus throughout the screen, I might retort that "any imperfect or bowed geometry = broke as far as I'm concerned." This would mean, of course, most CRT tube sets. (And uneven brightness and convergence/geometry problems are more visible than a single dead pixel on any HD plasma).
Again, if you are too freaked out to buy a digital display, or perfectly happy with a small CRT tube set, no one's going to make you buy a plasma. But many of us have been enjoying our digital displays for years. I watch in the dark and value good black levels. I get them with the Panasonic plasma, and the perfect flatness and focus of the image, along with the significantly larger image, gives me a more cinematic experience than I have ever gotten from any tube set.Come on in, the water's fine...;-)
Cheers,
Rich H.
first off... there are ALWAYS broken big screens at EVERY store i go into... that's a FACT! often there are 3-4 sets turned off. out of maye 20-30 sets... that tells me that those sets are total crap. that's not paranoia... that's simple observation. about 1 set in 10 bites the dust before the model year is even over.second... i HAVE seen stuck pixels on screens that salespeople have tried to discount and dismiss. to me, that one stuck red pixel is an eyesore that would drive me nuts every time i looked at it. add four more... and i'd go ted koczinski.
third... the last time i really looked at a "flat screen", the motion artifacts were outright hideous. this was just a few months ago and even a few weeks ago, the projection sets that i looked at had disgusting pixel blocking on compex signals too. i'll admit that flat screens look awesome on static text, but on complex fast action panning, they look terrible. my 20 year old 27" TV looks better on fast action than the digital sets i've looked at.
finally, the INDUSTRY STANDARD half a dozen bad pixels or it sucks to be you warranty totally bites and swallows. 5 stuck pixels is downright criminal! sorry... it sucks to be you... you need 2 more stuck pixels to return this set... thanks for your $5000 sucker! come on!
if you want to gamble on buying a broken lemon that isn't FULLY guaranteed, then by all means, go ahead. like i said, do whatever works for you.
if you're into paying several times more for an inferior contrast picture that has horrendous pixilization artifacts, that has a 1:10 chance of breaking within a year (possibly after warranty expiration) and that isn't guaranteed to be 100% funtional out of the box... then by all means, go ahead.
my OPINION is that you're paying too much for junk. this is based on simple observation. i don't remember EVER seeing a direct view set turned off. my 20 year old $250 set is still chugging along just fine. my set has PROVEN it's 20 year+ life span. i can't remember ever seeing EVERY big screen turned on in any store i've ever visited. that is a FACT!
Well, I hope that you continue to enjoy your 20year old $250 set for a long time to come. OTOH, I am enjoying a plasma with no dead/stuck pixels and will do so until I find something even better.What's right for you ain't necessarily what's right for others.
Kal
absolutely positively correct.i would never suggest that my OPINIONS are the only right ones in the world. i'd rather someone disagree with me civilly than agree with me and talk trash about someone with a different opinion's ancestors.
this post was about plasma reliability, and i shared my views on the subject. without ever owning a plasma screen, i can't say emphatically that they will break, but i don't trust them based on what i've observed.
for every opinion, there's an opposite. if your plasma screen is working 100% and you're happy with it, here's to hoping that it stays working 100% for many years to come.
i'd rather settle on a smaller 34" direct view CRT for better contrast, viewing angles and zero motion artifacts. if someone were to give me a plasma screen, i wouldn't throw it out, but i'd never buy one. just adding my two cents on the subject. i view plasma, LCD and DLP as a gamble while CRTs are tried and true.
i'm still waiting for the next technology that will be thin screen like plasma, but use phospors like CRTs in a hybrid. i forget what the technology is called. i haven't heard anything about it in a year or two at least.
You keep restating the same thing and you have every right to hold that opinion.OTOH, there are 4 plasmas in my family and none have been any problem.
(One was delivered with a few fixed pixels but it was replaced without hesitation by the mfr.)So, we have your anecdotal observations and my anecdotal observations. Let's leave it there.
Kal
The average half life of a Plasma is about 30,000 hrs. Double that for the new Pannys. LCDs will probably out live both of us.:-)
All technologies have their plusses and minuses, and everyone must decide for themselves what is best for them. There's lots of options out there.
As for SED, I heard its introduction was pushed back. When it does come out, a 50" will be $10K, *if* you can get one.FWIW, I don't own a Plasma or LCD TV.
Jack
not only did i address this post's topic "the reliability of plasma screens (or LACK THEREOF)", but i DIDN'T waste any time talking about plasma and LCD screen's HIDEOUS motion artifacts that turn any complex fast moving scenes into a blur of indistinct pixels. that isn't a reliability issue, but it's another reason why i think plasma screens are evil.i'll get back to you when the plasma/CRT hybrid diamond screens start being produced. those should be more reliable from what i've read.
The lifespan of a $2,999 Sony KE-32TS2U is 55 weeks, or 3 weeks out of warranty. If you buy one, buy the extended warranty because a new panel is $3,400.00! Off to read LCD comments, no more plasma for me.
Exactly why I'll NEVER buy another overrated Sony POS product again. I've got a long history of buying top of the line Sony products only to have them go belly-up within a month of the expiration of the warranty - only to find out that it costs more to repair than I paid for the f~cking thing! No more Sony for me ... EVER.
Read all about it (in the link).The people you have spoken to are are beyond ignorant -- they're stupid. For accurate information on plasma and Flat Panel LCD technology, go to the Plasma and Flat Panel LCD Displays forum at AVS. There you'll find the answers to all of your questions and more information on this topic than anywhere else on the net.
He is wrong. Go to the websites and you will see life-spans of 30,000 to 60,000 hours to HALF brightness!Kal
Typical plasma TVs have a life span of 20,000 to 30,000 hours, which equates to at about 20 years of usage if you have the set on for 4 hours a day. The lifespan of an LCD TV is typically 50,000 to 60,000 hours, or about 40 years running 4 hours daily. According to Ecoustics site.
millen wrote:"Typical plasma TVs have a life span of 20,000 to 30,000 hours."
Millen, that's not the case and hasn't been for couple of years now.
Manufacturers have worked dilegently on phosphor decay rates since lower-life plasmas first hit the shelves. They've made great strides and now virtually every major plasma manufacturer rates their display at 60,000 hours (or more) to half life. (Based on the same type of reliable phosphor decay rate testing as used for CRTs).That's about 27 years at 6 hours a day. The life-span issue is a non-issue these days.
The new displays are much more resistant to burn-in. I've inhabited the AVS Plasma forum for years, with thousands of plasma owners passing through, and there are no reports of burn-in from average users. (One guy bought a plasma for his kids, who did nothing but "game" on it for about 9 months, and he could spot a tiny bit of burn in on an all-white screen, but not in normal use).
Here is a link to a new study that tested out various "Plasma myths."
It's educational:http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pio/pe/images/portal/cit_3424/273087528Pioneer DTV White Paper - FINAL.pdf
Cheers,
Rich H.
that's longer than the technology will be valid or of interest.Kal
Should I even bother going with plasma? They seem to have the best pictures of the flat panels, but almost every person I have spoke to about the subject tells me to stay away from plasma sets. Why? Any tv will eventually break down.
early plasma sets failed because the owners and installers had them fitted into the walls like a picture. Heat kills the the plasmas. Current sets have fans and are recommended to be mounted with 2 to 3 inch clearance on all dimensions. There are little problems if the concerns regarding cooling are followed.
Old prejudices and experiences die hard.....Stu
However, the biggest culprit is Plasma TVs can suffer from Burn-in or Stuck Pixels burn-in produced by static images. After extended periods, stationary images "burn in" and produce an after-image ghost which remains permanently on the screen. With technologies such as 'pixel orbitor,' new plasma TVs have addressed burn-in and significantly reduced the issues of older models.In addition, LCD TVs do not suffer from burn-in, but can have a "retained pixel charge" which may also produce ghosting. Stuck pixels are also possible with an LCD display. With the latest plasma technology this would be even. The "pixel orbitor" is automatic and does not require additional efforts by the end-user.
neat but not as automatic as it should be. My PDP had it as an option but the factory default is OFF.Kal
I bought one last year and I am very happy I did. Picture is spectacular.Kal
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