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Re: Understanding the volume knob...

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In Reply to: Re: Understanding the volume knob... posted by kotches on January 03, 2002 at 08:14:35:

[you wrote]
When you calibrate your system using internal test tones, you calibrate all speakers to 75dB
[my continued confusion]
So when I sit down with my radio shack SPL digital meter, (sitting on my camera tripod at ear level beside my cofa), and turn on the test tones in my Marantz SR19EX I find I have to turn the volume knob up to say -10db on the display and the RS meter is saying roughly 75db, (+-3db), at each speaker. I then adjust each channel independantly to obtain the 75db reading at each speaker. Life is good, go enjoy....
What the end result of this exercise is that I have adjusted the system for best surround balance, but with regard to the volume knob I have, (hopefully), balanced the volume output such that a 0db setting on the SR19EX results in a possible "refernce level" as you mentioned above?
Correct?

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Re: Understanding the volume knob... - kotches 10:47:11 01/03/02 (10)
Yes.
I haven't played with your receiver, but I do believe the volume control is not active when running calibration tones.
Your calibration procedure is pretty accurate, but ideally the meter should be where your head would be. Not always acheivable in the real world.
The goal, is to have a point of reference. So that when you tell someone you listen at -12.0dB, it gives them a repeatable level that they can achieve.
I rarely listen at true "reference level" myself, it's too loud for my tastes. The norm for me is -10 to -15dB.
Regards,
- reference volume, room size, listening position? - bstan 10:54:54 01/03/02 (9)
  John,
  when you say you listen at -10dB to -15dB below reference volume on DD 5.1 or DTS 5.1, can you give me some idea how far away you sit from your main speakers and what size room you are in?
  Thanks,
  bstan
  - Re: reference volume, room size, listening position? - kotches 11:36:17 01/03/02 (8)
    Bstan,
    See that's the point.
    Reference level is what's delivered to the listening position. So the SPL will be the same, regardless of the room, distance to speakers, etc etc etc.
    That being said, the room is approximately 21'x12' with 8' ceilings, and an opening to a kitchen at the right rear of the room.
    Distance to front soundstage (L/C/R) is 7.5'
    Distance to sub and surrounds is 5.5'
    Regards,
    - Interesting - bstan 13:07:10 01/03/02 (7)
      Yes, I understand reference volume and SPL but just wanted to get a sense of your listening space at your -10 to -15dB listening levels.
      Myself, I frequently listen at -6dB to -0dB on both DD 5.1 and DTS 5.1 sources. My Mains are 8' away from me, the sub 10'. Rarely do I think the volume is too loud at -6dB. I have on occasion needed to lower volume to -9dB.
      
      My room is 19' x 13' x 8-12' cathrdral ceiling with one large 4' wide door opening to a cavernous 2 story living room (itself > 6000 cuft) and another door opening to the kitchen.
      bstan
      - Re: Interesting - bmar 20:45:15 01/05/02 (5)
        
        In Reply to: Interesting posted by bstan on January 03, 2002 at 13:07:10:
        
        I think the speaker sensitivity may also play some part in this.
        the spl output from speakers with an efficiency of 88db 1w1m will be greatly different the speakers with an efficiency of 100db 1w1m, with the volume set at the same -20db.
        Bill
        
        Come again - bstan 10:11:43 01/06/02 (4)
        
        In Reply to: Re: Interesting posted by bmar on January 05, 2002 at 20:45:15:
        
        I'm not sure I understand.
        Let's say we both calibrate to reference volume with a common SPL level and choose to listen at some decremented level (say -5dB) below reference level.
        If I record SPL levels at my seat at this -5dB level and come up with 100dB on the meter (for 88dB sensitive speakers) and my friend also listens at -5dB and records 100dB on the meter (for 100dB sensitive speakers), I'm not sure I see the difference in speaker sensitivity making a difference.
        Does sensitivity make a difference beyond how much amplifier power is needed to get to a specific SPL? Granted, some speakers with a higher sensitivity may produce more detail at a lower overall SPL output, and thus can be enjoyed at lower SPLs.
        Am I missing something? Did I make some bad assumptions?
        bstan
        
        Re: Come again - bmar 20:29:09 01/06/02 (3)
        
        In Reply to: Come again posted by bstan on January 06, 2002 at 10:11:43:
        
        Hi,
        I may be off base here, but consider this. the amp has no idea how well the speaker are using the power it gives out. at least my denon has no place to input that data into it. so i would guess that the sound levels the amp is associating with -10, -20 or -30 is output wattage to a generic most popular type of speaker environment.
        this post started out with people talking about listening at at -10 and -20. I have a 17 x 15 x 9 room with two large opening to adjacent rooms. I listen to most movies at -30 to -35 this gives me spl of 85 plus higher peaks. i turn the amp up to -20 to -25 to show some one an effect or something but this is around 100db! a bit strong for just listening.
        ok so the point, the speaker playing this are 102db efficient JBL theater speakers. now when i hook up my old nasty speakers that also have 15" woofer and are 3way. I'm turning up the wolume to -15 to -20 to achieve the same sound, noise, affects.
        unless the amp/receiver has an input funtion or can know how efficient the speaker is. the reference is just that, a reference.
        thats why we sit on the couch with an spl meter, because we need to tune everything alike. and also why the first recommendation you get from any home theater speaker sales is your speakers have to match, and be able to work together so fornts dont overpower centers or surrounds and vice versa.
        just my thoughts.......
        Bill
        
        Re: Come again - kotches 22:30:17 01/06/02 (0)
        
        In Reply to: Re: Come again posted by bmar on January 06, 2002 at 20:29:09:
        
        A further thought that I didn't add.
        The only difference will be the power required to get to that output level.
        Regards,
        
        Re: Come again - kotches 22:29:24 01/06/02 (1)
        
        In Reply to: Re: Come again posted by bmar on January 06, 2002 at 20:29:09:
        
        That's the whole point of calibrating to reference levels though.
        -10dB is -10dB regardless of anything.
        It's 95dB peaks from the main speakers, 105dB peaks from the subwoofer, regardless of speaker sensitivity, regardless of room size, regardless of amplifier power.
        Calibration to reference is to provide consistent and repeatable results across disparate rooms, speakers, electronics etc.
        Regards,
        
        Re: Come again - bmar 15:35:14 01/07/02 (0)
        
        In Reply to: Re: Come again posted by kotches on January 06, 2002 at 22:29:24:
        
        yep, my mistake
        Bill
      - Re: Interesting - kotches 13:20:20 01/03/02 (0)
        
        In Reply to: Interesting posted by bstan on January 03, 2002 at 13:07:10:
        
        bstan,
        Some of it boils down to individual preferences too. I've never been someone that listens at "concert hall levels", although my system is quite capable of doing so ;-)
        At under 2000 cubic feet my room is relatively small, but I'm happy with it :-D
        Regards,

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