Video Asylum

IOW, the Lexicon is the A/V equivalent of a $3000 face lift. For some reason it reminds me of this...

66.140.46.61

Audiophilander

In Reply to: RE: Hadn't thought about the possibility... posted by The Real Dick Hertz on January 18, 2010 at 20:24:10

:O)

Follow Ups:

Probably, but unless you've listened and decided it sounds no better than the Oppo - Jazz Inmate 21:27:27 01/18/10 (6)
you really aren't in a position to say.
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We must be the change we wish to see in the world. -Gandhi
- You have a point there. - The Real Dick Hertz 10:28:24 01/19/10 (0)
  I'm sure the fancy faceplate and the deeper blue lights make a significant improvement in the sound over the standard Oppo unit that's $3000 less. And if I was someone who bought the Lexicon unit, I'd think the same thing after extensive listening tests. After all, who wants to admit they got ripped off?
- I'm not evaluating the Lexicon BD-30 performance, but your obliviousness to this is reminiscent of the Wizard of Oz too. - Audiophilander 02:02:16 01/19/10 (4)
  I just can't decide whether your behavior is more like the humbug Wizard, the melted witch or Dorothy's little dog Toto. ;O)
  What I will say is this: If, and let me reiterate ...IF... Lexicon is dropping a player that they've sourced from Oppo or parent company BBK (the same Chinese manufacturer which supplies Oppo's $500 BDP-83) into a heavier chassis and then charging $3500 a pop for 'em without providing any noteworthy performance enhancements and modifications with higher quality parts then it is a deception that their potential customers should be clued in about.
  While it may be entirely legal for brand name labels to source their products from OEMs, repackage and charge whatever they want, it isn't ethical to deceive shoppers who think that they are buying the "best" bang for their high-end buck; that seems to be the consensus on most A/V sites, discussion boards and blogs as well. Of course, as always, YMMV; feel free to dissent.
  BTW, I'll wager that I've read a lot more on this developing story than you have so in that regard I'm probably a quite a bit better informed than you appear to be (from multiple sources). Do your homework, and then jump back into the discussion.
  Cheers,
  AuPh
  
  Edits: 01/19/10
  - Ayre, Lexicon and Theta all announced months ago they were using the Oppo - Jazz Inmate 08:54:55 01/19/10 (3)
    We already knew that.
    
    I'm not convinced the Audioholics dudes know what modifications look like on an audio board--know what Vishay resistors look like, for example. They know the board topology is the same--but everyone knew that before cracking open the Lexicon chassis because (again) Lexicon announced it was using the Oppo months ago. I'm also not convinced the potential dampening/isolation/grounding changes from the chassis have no impact on the sound. On some components you just put a shakti stone on the chassis or a set of Aurios underneath and it makes a big impact. That there is zero impact on audio, as Audioholics claims, to me says the reviewer probably isn't attuned to differences in sound, although I'd have to do a comparison to confirm.
    
    The Audioholics dudes acted like Lexicon broke the 10 commandments on what is a fairly common practice in audio. The rest of you joined the lynch mob. Sorry, but I'm more sober in my assessment. If that means I take insults from people like Hertz and you, whose judgment has not really impressed me in the past BTW, so be it.
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    We must be the change we wish to see in the world. -Gandhi
    - Audioholics conducted scientific tests on both Oppo and Lexicon players; the performance was virtually identical. - Audiophilander 11:59:38 01/19/10 (2)
      Yes, everyone knew that the Oppo BDP-83 was going to be used by Ayers, Theta and Lexicon as a base player from which to build their own designs. I'm pretty sure that the logical assumption most A/V-philes would make is that performance would be ratcheted up by these high-end manufacturers with all sorts of modifications along with high quality parts as per the Nuforce edition along with proprietary firmware tweaks in addition to having a heavier case. That apparently has not occurred if the Audioholics testing is accurate.
      
      > > > "I'm also not convinced the potential dampening/isolation/grounding changes from the chassis have no impact on the sound." < < <
      
      Of course it "might" muffle a modest amount of internal noise assuming it was noticeable in the first place, ...but $3000 worth? Trust me, better component isolation can be achieved for a heck of a lot less. As this story unfolds it looks more and more like Lexicon may have gotten caught playing a shell game on their customers, the "shell" being a fancy face plate and a bought & paid label for THX certification (which is probably a scam as well).
      
      > > > "The Audioholics dudes acted like Lexicon broke the 10 commandments on what is a fairly common practice in audio." < < <
      
      OEM resourcing may be common practice, but given the growing outrage over this faux pas a better analogy might be the fabled money-changers being beaten from the high-end temple. ;O)
      
      Cheers,
      AuPh
      - Yeah, so you've said - Jazz Inmate 12:53:06 01/19/10 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Audioholics conducted scientific tests on both Oppo and Lexicon players; the performance was virtually identical. posted by Audiophilander on January 19, 2010 at 11:59:38
        
        The ear is ultimately the only instrument that matters when it comes to determining the quality of a component. If you think a voltmeter has all the answers for you, think again. Why would a Vishay resistor measure differently than other resistors, especially since you'd use the same resistor value for any you'd replace! Why would you expect different measurements? Sound is a different matter.
        
        > > OEM resourcing may be common practice, but given the growing outrage over this faux pas a better analogy might be the fabled money-changers being beaten from the high-end temple. ;O) < <
        
        Growing outrage on the internet is like growing tumbleweeds in the desert. I'd be shocked if any of you "outraged" consumers had bought the Lexicon, or had even been tempted to buy it. You're just looking to join a lynch mob. Now that I realize Lexicon based its BDP on the non-SE Oppo, I'm no longer in the mood to defend the company, but I'm certainly not impressed with Audioholics and their "scientific" tests that were about as scientific as a crucifixion.
        
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        We must be the change we wish to see in the world. -Gandhi
        
        "...tests that were about as scientific as a crucifixion." - Let he who is without sin cast the first Shakti Stone! (nt) - Audiophilander 16:27:41 01/19/10 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Yeah, so you've said posted by Jazz Inmate on January 19, 2010 at 12:53:06
        
        ;O)

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