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In Reply to: RE: What disgusts me is finessing the fact that indeed slavery hung in the balance in this war. posted by tinear on June 13, 2020 at 08:57:22
I would like to see any documented proof you have that slaves were customarily murdered, vs the Jews by Hitler.
Also, Lee was not alone in the South thinking that slavery was wrong. You have no way of knowing that slavery would have continued in existence. Your assumption that if the Confederacy won would mean slavery would have continued unchanged has no merit. The change in attitude towards slavery almost worldwide changed over time. The South may very well have changed in time as well. Hell, the world, including the defeated North, could have forced it economically. You don't know.
Let me guess....you are a college professor.
Follow Ups:
Transporting people across the seas causing massive numbers of their deaths is murder. Working children, women, and men to death is murder. Killing those who seek freedom by escaping is murder.
Your comment about the possible non-continuation of slavery is shocking: do we know anything for certain about the future? Would Hitler have continued to kill Jews, gypsies, Slavs, and others he deemed sub-human, after the war, had he won? Should we have waited to find out?
I don't understand your argument at all, actually. Are you saying we should have let absolute evil continue because you have no idea how long it could last? Or are you saying slavery wasn't evil?
Perhaps you think Lee and Davis were honorable men, even though their support of slavery led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of their fellow Americans?
BTW, it wasn't the Southerners who captured the Africans. It was those that sold to slave traders, or the traders themselves.They then sold to the farmers (ie slaveholders). It would hardly have been in the best interest of slave owners to murder their slaves...perhaps you never took a basic economics course. Many slave traders were black, and, interestingly one of the early large slave traders in America was black.
Another fact for you to help expand your knowledge...hundreds of thousands of Irish were enslaved by the Brits to farm the Carribean Islands. You don't see the Irish burning effigies of the Queen or seeking reparations.
I definitely am an admirer of Lee. He did not think slavery was right. Don't know too much about Jefferson Davis. Lee was not a proponent of slavery, and in fact thought it was wrong. He fought for the Confederacy because of states' rights.
BTW...are you a college professor?
involved in the slave trade means the hundreds of years of American slavery is okay? And by murder, I never said or meant assassinate. Work to death. That's what happened. Slaves were considered chattel, like dogs or cattle to be bred. Used, bred, discarded. Owned.
You may wish to consider that the Irish were indentured workers: when their work contracts were up, they were free. Their spouses and children also were not automatically slaves. (I am not a professor, for whatever that's worth).
Whoa!!....Tinear, I never said slavery was OK. Good God man! Slavery was terrible...an abomination to mankind. If you read that into my posts, I apologize for leading you astray. Also, I apologize for any insults...heat of the moment for me in these troubled times
To sum it up, I don't believe tat our history should be torn down. I believe the Civil War was over states' rights, with slavery the reason for the disagreement. I think it wrong to consider the 300,000 Confederate soldiers as traitors and slave mongers. My opinion, and shared by many ( although not
this board).
As for slaves vs indentured servants...I think deporting entire families (not always I concede) against their will, to a foreign country to work for as much as 7 years is pretty darn close to slavery. Also, it was not unusual to work these indentured servants to death their final year. We can debate this likely forever.
Let's move on...take care.
there's a beating heart there after all!
regards,
it's either the parroting of a white supremacist meme, proliferation of CT, or a profound misunderstanding of history ... you've dealt with the poster far longer than I, so you'll have greater insight into sussing out the intent ... it just may be what it appears to be though ... when people tell you who they are believe them
with regards,
Rivervalley....can you loan me a thesaurus?
certainly ... follow the link:
there's a special jingoism edition on-line too if you'd care to look
be well,
I wondered when this meme would be trotted out ... see link
'when is the last time you heard an Irishman bitching and moaning about how the world owes them a living?" The "Irish slaves" meme is a subset of the "white slavery" contemporary discourse which emphasizes class over race and is fueled by a potent cocktail of bad history, false equivalence, conspiracy theories, and reductionist fallacies'
btw, are you a college student
be well,
Let me bow out of this saying I abhor the concept of slavery, but will never sit back and condemn all southerners during the Civil War.
AS Davy Crockett famously said..."You can all go to hell, I'm going to Texas".
Be well yourself.
I guess I'd better go back to college as I have no idea what you said.
really? you brought up the 'Irish slaves' meme so I linked to where that meme comes from and why ... here's another excerpt:
'Such is the case with the myth of "Irish slaves," an ahistorical reimagining of real events weaponized by racists and conspiracy theorists before the Web and now reaching vast new audiences online'
maybe click on the link and, as you said, 'help expand your knowledge'
be well,
GFY
but have a good day
uh oh ... the curse of the incel!
so you didn't read the link?
and here I thought we would eventually discuss Guy Fawkes
but thank you for your considered and erudite response
be well,
NT
I had to look that up too.
I guess I need sa newer version of Encyclopedia Brittanica
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