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In Reply to: RE: "Westworld:" entertaining, sometimes brilliant, but posted by tinear on September 18, 2021 at 07:52:03
I think there's another season (season 4) on the way which is supposed to start in May 2022. That's a big gap between seasons 3 and 4.
I guess my view of the "movers and shakers" among humanity is quite a bit more pessimistic than yours. There have also been studies which indicate that the more money and material possessions people accumulate, the less empathy they tend to have with their fellow human beings. (Yes, there are some exceptions.) But I find the motivations of all the characters in Westworld entirely plausible, since these characters mostly correspond to the "elites" in our present society. Certainly, not everyone now is like the characters depicted in the series, but, alas, there are enough like them to pull us all down to perdition.
No redeeming value? Hardly.
Follow Ups:
i.e. to rape and murder their fellows, is corrosive, dehumanizing--- for the viewer, Chris. Not all, most, or many rich-and-powerful people are rapists/murders. Insensitive to those beneath them, supporters of cruel social policies, yes; active participants in cruel slaughter? No. The armed forces learned long ago that for GIs to participate in actual combat killing, they had to be "programmed" by rigorous psychological conditioning--- and even so, in battle, many fired not at the enemy, but at the general vicinity (reported and supported in "The Mask of Command," by a fellow (John Keegan) who long taught at England's most prestigious officer training college).
There is NO artistic, philosophical, or moral purpose to showing such repeated, graphic, gruesome, and sadistic behavior--- it is, to be blunt, voyeuristic and extremely violent pornography. It isn't the mere depiction of said acts, it is their exceptionally (and I mean that, exactly) graphic, repeated, and casual use: this is textbook gratuitousness.
. . . psychological conditioning is irrelevant. This series deals not so much with your average Joe, but with those in power, most of whom, I contend, are sociopaths - even psychopaths. What is depicted in Westworld are the fantasies of such people lurking beneath their respectable surface behavior. Indeed, the "man in black" character is an explicit personification of this idea. Moreover, even people not originally inclined towards sociopathy or psychopathy can be corrupted (without explicit psychological conditioning) to exhibit these qualities, as personified through the "Dolores" character in this series.
I do not argue with you that the action depicted on Westworld is indeed graphic, gruesome, and sadistic. But the very strategies which our "leaders" implement (through such policies as sanctions and forever wars) are full of gruesomeness and sadism. (As a side note, I'll recall that the Clinton administration's sanctions and no fly zone over Iraq are estimated to have caused the deaths of over 50,000 Iraqi children - and it was all worth it according to one of the war criminals in that administration, Madeleine Albright. Do you not see how psychotic these "normal" people in power actually are?) Unfortunately, we've grown accustomed to seeing this kind of gruesomeness and sadism, and it now takes something more devastating (like what Westworld depicts) to actually shake us out of our lethargy. You claim Westworld is pornography - I say you're wrong. There's nothing gratuitous about it.
You sure won't get that in the MSM. I know you must have lots of non-MSM reported studies to have made such an astonishing claim.
I didn't think the clientele of "Westworld" were those in positions of power? Perhaps bourgeoisie or even blue-collar that had saved up? After all, the truly powerful don't need to go to a fantasy palace, they do this stuff (Epstein and his "clients") in the real world.
As far as conditioning: folks that go to "Westworld" know what they're in for, they're already interested in rape and ultra-violence: is this an accurate portrayal?
Gratuitous is the many-multiple repetition of, for instance, the shooting massacre in the town street with the dozens of bodies. Unnecessarily graphic are the many scenes wherein knives are used to maim, dismember, disembowel, etc. We'll have to disagree on this point as far as the repetitive nature. And what of the continuous showing of the bots being carved up or their remains shown prominently? What is the object? Sensationalism. Do you really think a viewer will come away more pacifistic from viewing ultra-violence or will it further deaden him to it? You seem to agree with the latter since you say it has to be increased. If "shaking us out of" worked, "Saving Private Ryan," one of the most graphic depictions (without gratuitousness/repetitiveness) of war, ever, would have had an impact. It quite obviously didn't.
And Dolores was a bot, programmed to be passive and not to harm a human. Not much, I'd say, to be deduced from her behavior, i.e. compared to a human being's far greater complexity.
By the way, the "reveries" basic plot smacked so very much of the HAL cognitive dissonance story that Clarke's estate should have been paid...
You sure won't get that in the MSM.
I didn't think the clientele of "Westworld" were those in positions of power? Perhaps bourgeoisie or even blue-collar that had saved up? After all, the truly powerful don't need to go to a fantasy palace, they do this stuff (Epstein and his "clients") in the real world.
As far as conditioning: folks that go to "Westworld" know what they're in for, they're already interested in rape and ultra-violence: is this an accurate portrayal?
Gratuitous is the many-multiple repetition of, for instance, the shooting massacre in the town street with the dozens of bodies. Unnecessarily graphic are the many scenes wherein knives are used to maim, dismember, disembowel, etc. We'll have to disagree on this point as far as the repetitive nature. And what of the continuous showing of the bots being carved up or their remains shown prominently? What is the object? Sensationalism. Do you really think a viewer will come away more pacifistic from viewing ultra-violence or will it further deaden him to it? You seem to agree with the latter since you say it has to be increased. If "shaking us out of" worked, "Saving Private Ryan," one of the most graphic depictions (without gratuitousness/repetitiveness) of war, ever, would have had an impact. It quite obviously didn't.
And Dolores was a bot, programmed to be passive and not to harm a human. Not much, I'd say, to be deduced from her behavior, i.e. compared to a human being's far greater complexity.
By the way, the "reveries" basic plot smacked so very much of the HAL cognitive dissonance story that Clarke's estate should have been paid...
With all those misinterpretations, you obviously didn't "get" what you watched.
For a teenager who enjoys comic-book sexism (lots of nude women; lots of nude women being beaten, raped!), ultra-violence including repeated dismemberment, torture, and murder.
Lots of people also enjoy Holocaust scenes, repeatedly. To what purpose, one asks?
. . . to search beyond the literal and the obvious. C'mon, tin - you just might be able to get beyond literalism too if you try, or, failing that, if you wish REALLY hard! ;-)
know what it means? It means it serves NO purpose to the story except to sensationalize, to bring viewership that enjoys watching carnage. If you're watching a Holocaust drama, do you need to see millions being starved, murdered? Well, bad question. Maybe you do.
I don't really feel like I want to watch the other seasons...
I have a feeling that I already know what's coming and that other seasons will not be as good.
I found the story thread difficult to follow sometimes, with all the leaps in continuity from episode to episode (or even within an episode) - especially in season 2. And tin is right that the type and amount of violence can easily come across as gratuitous and offensive. Nevertheless, the series tells an important story, with important insights on what it means to be human, and some often fantastic imagery. I personally think that it's worth sitting through the difficult parts, although the series is obviously not for everyone.
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