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In Reply to: RE: In defense of Bergman. posted by jamesgarvin on August 14, 2007 at 08:02:17
Before all this Bergman attention, I guess I was a Bergman neophyte. In fact, I just watched "Through a Glass Darkly" yesterday. I "liked" Persona, Fanny and Alexander, and hated Seventh Seal.I'm not so sure I would encourage neophytes to spend too much time with Bergman, though. For your average movie-goer, Bergman movies will come across too much like plays, but with all the downsides such as limited action and often over-dramatic dialogue but without the advantages of being there in person in front of the stage for that involvement.
Edits: 08/14/07Follow Ups:
That can not be.
It really comes across as dated to me. In general, Bergman films don't quite involve me emotionally or "move" me, especially Seventh Seal. I can respect and "study" aspects of his film-making, but I don't ever recall being moved to tears or smile.
I also just watched Fellini's "La Strada." Here is a very simple film from similar era, yet it moved me and had a lasting emotional imprint. It wasn't too boring, either :)
Well La Strada is Italian, emotional!
Bergman is from the cold north, intellectual.
Give it a new try at some point in your life.
Found it to be extremely powerful and have a lasting emotional impact. I'm also inclined to resonate with it's themes (not saying you're not just noting that I am).
"You can safely assume you have created God in your own image when he hates all the same people you do."
I think that it's a good flick bordering on greatness, but very dated, self-absorbed and tedious when looking beyond the symbolism of the chess match and clever cinematography which, BTW, occasionally suffers from poorly matched indoor/outdoor footage.I bought the Criterion Seventh Seal to add to my DVD collection recalling the film as being very impressive when I saw it back in college with a group of students under the influence of Grey Poupon. Time has not been generous to my recollections of this film. The high quality Criterion transfer drew attention to Seventh Seal's stagier scenes, which were eminently forgettable and much campier than recollections of the film.
My wife, who I convinced (regrettably) to watch Seventh Seal, found that she disliked this movie on several levels, describing the film as boringly pretentious in spite of it's reputation. In retrospect, while I don't completely concur with her impressions, I find little room for disagreement with her overall observations.
So, while I don't "hate" this film by any means, taken on the whole I don't consider Bergman's career to be as brilliant or challenging as some here. He isn't as visionary or heroic a figure in the Director's Pantheon as auteurs the like of Dreyer, Lang, Murnau, Pabst, Von Stroheim, Von Sternberg, Welles, Wilder, and (aw yes, hee, hee) Peter Jackson.
AuPh
You mean, bien sure, Billy Wilder.
Now tell me please what is your prefered" flicks " having been filmed by him.
Double Indemnity (Dir.; screenplay)
The Lost Weekend (Dir.; screenplay)
Sunset Boulevard (Dir.; writer)
Ace In the Hole (Dir.) You should appreciate the title! ;0)
The Seven Year Itch (Dir.; screenplay)
Some Like It Hot (Dir.; screenplay)
The Apartment (Dir.; writer)
Irma La Douce (Dir.; writer)
The Fortune Cookie (Dir.; writer)
These are just the highlights of his career accomplishments. All would fall under the 'preferred' category, but you may find Some Like It Hot most suited to your personal taste for reasons which *ahem* need no further discussion. :O)
Cheers,
AuPh
First I know all Wilder´s films.
Even his " Menschen am Sontag " which ir rare to see, or like his only film he made in France, in Paris " Mauvaise Graine ".
He gave his best after being the scholar of the master, Lubitsch.
One of the film Iike the most did not make your list: Sabrina, while for me his worst " Irma " did.
Stalag should be to your taste too, I wonder why you did not put it in.
Anyway I wonder how one can like him and Jackson...But as you said...
0:)
...after being inundated by so many cine-ful grey poupon masturbations from you & the Russian bare over the years the idea of watching a bunch of guys bunking together in POW uniforms loses it's appeal. ;0)
> > > "Anyway I wonder how one can like him and Jackson" < < <
That's easy, it's because:
a) They're both incredibly talented auteur Directors, and...
b) the sum total of their accomplishments as creative artists combined with the popularity of their achievements only reflects the extent of a well rounded viewer's cinematic tastes.
Bergman, OTOH, is very much an acquired taste, and like an improperly stored wine that's well past it's prime, his films don't always travel well. :O)
AuPh
"I'm not so sure I would encourage neophytes to spend too much time with Bergman, though."
I was not necessarily referring to film neophytes, but rather Bergman neophytes. People who have seen some films, and are looking for something a little more, well, cerebral.
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