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In Reply to: RE: Why... posted by ArdRi on September 12, 2007 at 08:32:33
Algier could not move the boxes himself, being slightly crippled. He relied on a blind stagehand to work with the boxes and obviously a blind man could not properly dispose of bodies in a way that would ensure they would remain hidden.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
Follow Ups:
Where'd he keep 'em all while he was doing his shows night after night?
"You can safely assume you have created God in your own image when he hates all the same people you do."
Talk about plausibility...you think an electric device prior to the turn of the century could have cloned hats, cats and humans? LOL.It was explained in the film that Algier was Tesla's only remaining financier and Tesla had to convince Algier that he was buying a scientific cloning device. Everything about Algiers' interaction with Tesla indicated that Tesla was pulling a fast one.
the chances of making cloning device using alternating electrical current are nil and the chances of finding 100 look-alikes is greater than nil. So by definition it is infinitely more plausible to find 100 look-alikes. Given Algier's resources as a wealthy aristocrat and given his travels "halfway around the world" as Borden said, he could have found and hired that many look-alikes. His experience earlier in the film showed him how. As for where he kept them all, or whether he arranged to bring each into London as needed individually, all he would have had to do is ensure no two of them appeared in the same place on any given day. That doesn't seem so challenging in a big city like London and the fact that he was murdering one of them each time the trick was performed quickly reduced their numbers. Of greater concern is how much time it would have taken to find and train the men.
I'm not saying it's wrong to view the movie as science fiction and interpret the Tesla device as a real cloning machine. Obviously, that's how most viewers did interpret it. But all the clues are there in the film to explain why this is not the correct interpretation. Chief among these is the Michael Caine voiceover challenging us to face facts vs letting the illusion stand as magic.
The most germane fact is that electronic cloning is impossible. The second most germane fact is that Algier was obsessed with outdoing Borden and had previously learned how to achieve fame with a body double who was allowed to stick around too long. The third most germane fact is that Algier's life and psyche were irreparably damaged when his own wife drowned in a box before his eyes. Algier was damaged goods. So was Borden but at least Borden had a valid excuse: he was sharing a life with his twin brother and genuinely wasn't responsible for half the actions attributed to him.
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"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
If I expected movies to be limited by what is considered possible I probably wouldn't go nearly as often.
I think your argument falls down when Algier first tests his machine and then shoots the clone that is created. At that point, he would have been convinced that it was indeed a cloning machine (having spent large sums of money), and would not have needed to locate a body double to show himself that the machine worked.
Michael Caine's voiceover could have been directed at the crowd (and jury), who believed that there was only one Algier.
I wish that the movie would have explored the moral dilemma created by the machine. It's not really clear to me which Algier is the clone and which is the original each time he uses the machine, or how much of his memories get transferred to the clone. Was he effectively committing suicide each night, or murder?
I agree that movies should not be limited to reality but this movie was very careful to have a rational explanation for each and every magic trick. Cloning is not a rational explanation. My interpretation is that Algier's first test of the device was not shown, and simply resulted in his realization that he had been tricked by Tesla. At that point, he would not have given up. He was obsessed and would go to any length to outdo Borden and ruin Borden's life. The very reason he hooked up with Tesla in the first place was because Borden tricked him, not because Tesla could build anything magical.
During the final conversation between Borden and Algier, as they're talking, the screen shows all those hats piled up outside Tesla's workshop. This is a big clue. Were those hats cloned or not? It's absolutely up to each viewer to decide but I do think one interpretation is correct and one is incorrect.
I wonder if the book makes it clearer.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
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"You can safely assume you have created God in your own image when he hates all the same people you do."
Do the magicians ever reveal their real secrets in the journal entries?
Consider that, at the film's critical moment in Angier's diary when he steps into the machine for the first time, he ends his account of what happens. That's significant. He does not lie about what happened but instead simply stops telling his story before his secret is revealed.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
and simply resulted in his realization that he had been tricked by Tesla."
LOL! Man, are you reaching.
"You can safely assume you have created God in your own image when he hates all the same people you do."
line that the Magician would want above all to preserve the secret so taking on outsiders to dispose of them would be a problem but so would space after a while. How long could he have gone on and where did he get all those tanks? Wouldn't the person supplying the tanks have to wonder where they all went?lol..
He only needed to find 100 body doubles, as he said these would be his final 100 shows. The challenges of finding that many look-alikes is no challenge at all compared to the alternative: an electrical device that clones people? Not a chance. I'm sure whoever was commissioned to build the 100 tanks was grateful for the business.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
cloning device per se but affected time and space allowing a parallel life form to enter this dimension.lol.. huh?
Haha...then Tesla would have been able to build one for every king and despot and died a wealthier and more successful man than Edison. After all, generating human beings is a far greater trick than generating electricity.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
and elected to withhold it's distribution to the rest of the world.
...so no, I don't think he'd have any problem at all selling such a contraption. Plus, he died a pauper with significant debts. He tried to drum up business and awards for himself at every opportunity.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
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