 
|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
|
|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
71.32.124.46
I'd go with Michael Caine.
"Alfie." "Ipcress File." "Funeral in Berlin." "The Man Who Would be King." "Educating Rita."
No, he didn't act in many great films but TO ME, his portrayals were unsurpassed.
Follow Ups:
and many others.
0385242719/3:21,3:22/3:40,4:10,192:17,229:9,239:10!
.
he's played everyone from Dracula to Beethoven, Sid Vicious to Lee Harvey Oswald
A real chameleon...
GW
And who could ever forget his performance as Drexl in True Romance
"Poor People have been voting for Democrats for the last 50 years.......and they are still poor."
So sayeth Charles Barkley
Washington has been excellent in every film that immediately comes to mind.
As for Crowe and Owen, they get on any list of greatness for, if nothing else, A Beautiful Mind and Children of Men respectively.
I may have my ages screwed up, but I'm not sure if Hopkins, Hackman, and Caine, are in the generation following Brando if generations are accepted as being in the range of 20-25 years. (not knocking their considerable talents, but strictly speaking, they aren't "post brando generation").
I'm gonna throw Dustin Hoffman out there as well. He excelled in films such as The Graduate, Rainman, Straight Time, Papillion, Confidence, All the Presidents Men, Kramer v Kramer, Midnight Cowboy, and Little Big Man among others.
"Poor People have been voting for Democrats for the last 50 years.......and they are still poor."
So sayeth Charles Barkley
I typed a flippin' stream of consciouness book and left *Clive* out. That's what I get for trying to work and post at the same time.Cliver Owen: I LOVE the guy - Bent, Croupier, Children of Men (my favorite film of 2006), Inside Man, Closer - I forgive Arthur and Elizabeth The Golden Age. He's the real deal. I love him more than Danile Day Lewis, who is next to divine. I don't necessarily believe him in period parts, where he never seems fully comfortable (odd for a British stage actor, but there ya go). I love Clive anyway.
Crowe - first saw him in the Aussie movies Romper Stomper and Proof, in the same year (1991?), and couldn't believe how differentand equally compelling the performances were. LA Confidential, The Insider - he shoulda won the Oscar for these roles. He carried Gladiator. He was good in a Beautiful Mind, although I don't like the film. He was a wonderful Jack Aubrey in Master & Commander. I dunno about his taste in roles though. And he ain't Mr. Sunshine. But he has the goods.
Dustin Hoffman, I'll grant you his importance if not his versatility. He's been in lots of important - and pivotal - movies, which you noted. Yet his tics drive me crazy sometimes - I can't watch Rainman to this day without squirming and twitching. And you left out Tootsie, which is Dusty at his most charming.
As for the generation gap...I understand what you mean. But for me, it's less a question of time passing (although there is at least a 10-15 year gap bewteen Brando and Hackman/Caine) than it is of aesthetics changing. There's a sea change in sensibility from the post war 1950s to the turbulent 60s and 70s.
Brando errupted onto the screen in 1951. Although he was in films for decades, and overlapped with all the people you named, Brando's most iconic and influential roles were in the early 50's. (His only truly great roles post 1950s were in The Godfathers, Last Tango In Paris and Apocalypse Now, in which his "performance" may not actually be a "performance" as normally defined). A Streetcar Named Desire (1951), Viva Zapata (1952), On The Waterfront (1953), Julius Ceasar (1953) and The Wild One (1954) were all released before 1955.
Hackman and Duval, OTOH, gained their recognition in the new American wave of the late 1960s and 1970s. Their first great roles were in movies from maverick American directors like Arthur Penn (Bonnie & Clyde 1967), Francis Ford Coppola, (The Godfather 1972, The Conversation 1974) and Robert Altman (Target 1968, MASH 1970) . These films were an entirely different sensibility from their counterparts from the fifties. Likewise, Michael Caine exploded in the mid-sixties onto the international scene in Alfie (1966), which was young, hip, cynical and irreverent. In between The Wild One and Bonnie & Clyde were The Beatles, swinging London, the Pill, the Kennedy and King assasinations, Viet Nam, civil rights marches, soldiers shooting at college students on campus, LSD, Jimi Hendrix and the French New Wave. From Brando's slicked back ducktail and leathers we had gone to freak flags flying and bell bottoms.
The old studio system was breaking down in the 1960s. Hollywood talent had been decimated by the McCarthy hearings. The youthquake was in full swing. The studios had hip, up and coming directors like Coppola, Penn, Altman, Mike Nichols, Peter Yates, Sam Peckinpah, Roman Polanski and Alan Pakula helming projects. Robert Altman and William Friedkin (The Thin Blue Line, French Connection) had crossed over from TV to feature films. Peter Bogdonavich laid down his pen and made Targets and The Last Picture Show. Sidney Lumet was working within the studio system but breaking out. Donald Cammell and Nic Roeg gave Warner Brothers studio execs heart attacks with Performance (and the experience reportedly gave star James Fox a nervous breakdown). Kubrick was fed up with Hollywood and moved to England (permanently as it turned out).
In England...Richard Lester was making us dance and laugh with The Beatles in a Hard Days Night, as well as instructing us on The Knack And How To Get It; Ken Loach was shining a neo-realist light on the working class in Poor Cow and Kes; Antonioni was making a beautiful, mysterious film about swinging London in Blow Up; Joseph Losey fled red-baiting persecution in Hollywood to make the gripping and creepy The Servant and the wistful and twisted The Go Between; Tony Richardson was having a ball sending up 18th century toffs in Tom Jones; Lindsay Anderson was terrifying the establishment with If; Syndey Furie made a star of a sandy haired cockney actor named Michael Caine in The Ipcress File;
By the 1970s you had bad boys Martin Scorsese, Milos Forman, Terence Malick, George Lucas (yes, really, he was considered a weird kid in those days), Steven Spielberg, Michael Cimino and John Boorman working in Hollywood. By the end of the decade John Carpenter and George Romero would be launched.
Brando paved the way for a lot of what came in the 60s and 70s. There are only 16 years between between Streetcar Named Desire and Bonnie & Clyde. (11 years between The Wild One and B&C.) But 1951/1954 and 1967 are a world apart. FWIW, a young Anthony Hopkins' first major role was as Richard The Lionheart in the 1968 Lion In Winter.
.
Edits: 12/15/08
"Last Tango in Paris" deserves special mention. The only way to describe it is transcendent, explosive, searing, and other such terms. One thing is sure, his performance set a benchmark for realism, for tearing through the screen, which likely will never even be equalled. The film, for me, hasn't aged a day nor the performance loss one degreee of its heat.
...probably his best role and a soul searing performance by any standard. This was Brando at his most personal, truthful and vulnerable, achieving his most universal appeal. I haven't seen LTIP in about 15 years and would like to again.
Don Corleone was a well crafted performance, memorable, perfectly judged, but Brando didn't personally invested himself in the role the way he did in LT - I grant you, it didn't require it either. But LT was the role of a lifetime and remains a very special performance. You'd have to go back to Streetcar or On The Waterfront to find anything comparable and LT may be Brando's best ever..
Brando in Apocalypse Now ...whacked, man, very whacked out.
Fiirst, great post. And point taken on the "generation gap" between Brando and Hackman, Caine, Duvall etc...
I initially questioned including Hoffman on the basis of vesatility, but as I ran over his ouvre (how could I have left Tootsie off?? Senior moment?), I thought about the power he brought to the gangster in Confidence, the ultimate sleazeball Ratso in Midnight Cowboy, the confusion of Benjamin Bratt in The Graduate, the inevitable recidivism he brought to the hard con Going Straight, and found plenty enuf versatility to warrant inclusion. And yes, his character in Rainman was fascinating, but once was plenty enuf... \\
As far as Tommy Lee Jones, hos work in The Executioners Song, In The Valley of Elah, No Country..., Lonesome Dove, etc. warrant inclusion IMHO. Still going strong in his early(?) 60s with his last two as good as anything he's done. A bit one dimensional perhaps, but man, does he ever nail that dimension.
"Poor People have been voting for Democrats for the last 50 years.......and they are still poor."
So sayeth Charles Barkley
Brando was to a large degree unique: tranformative, sexy, groundbreaking, iconic...but he's nowhere near my favorite star or actor, even among his generation. I was too young, I think, to get the full impact.
There aren't many thespians around with his combo of star power, sex appeal and talent, although there are lots of very fine - perhaps even better *film* - actors working today. But I don't think there is anyone comparable that I can think of in the last 20 years that had Brando's unique chemistry or that had a generational impact the way he did.
You'll get no argument from me about Michael Caine's wonderfulness - a great and versatile actor, a working class hero whose early success marked a real breakthrough in GB for actors not of the "veddy British", upper crust stage tradition. Some of my favoriote Caine roles in films not mentioned include Zulu, Mona Lisa, California Suite, Hannah and Her Sisters, A Shock To The System, The Fourth Protocol, Cider House Rules, Last Orders, Little Voice, The Quiet American and Children Of Men. Yes, he made his share of mediocre and bad films but the good stuff more than makes ammends, and Caine is always good, even in bad pictures. Most of the great actors oif the post-Brando generations have made their fair share of "pay the bills" movies. It just goes with the territory. Unless, of course, you're Daniel day Lewis and you only work once every 5 years.
So who's a movie star and a great actor?
Gene Hackman and Robert Duvall don't have the sexy thing going for them now (if they ever did), but their CVs as actors are as impressive as any American actor working toda. Each has both range and stature. Both men were outstanding and memorable film actors even in the earliest movie roles.
Hackman is somone who makes it look soooo easy - he's just so damn good, But he seldom has roles worthy of his talent lately. A look at his career confirms his achievements: Bonnie & Clyde, I Never Sang For My Father, The Conversation, The French Connection, Young Frankenstein, Under Fire, Night Moves, Hoosiers, Reds, No Way Out, Unforgiven, Get Shorty, Royal Tenebaums etc. He would be in my personal Hall Of Fame for his performance as Harry Caul in The Conversation even if he had made no other films.
Robert Duvall is Hackman's equal, perhaps with a slightly better movie list (although he got off to a slower start): To Kill A Mockingbird, True Grit, MASH, The Godfathers I & II, THX 1138, Network, Apocalypse Now, The Great Santini, Tender Mercies, Lonesome Dove, The Apostle etc.
I'm surprised - but kinda glad - no one's mentioned Jack Nicholson. Oh well, too much scenery chewing over the years I suppose.
Apparently no one is going to type the name Sean Connery either. He's not the best or most versatile actor in the world. But he is/was gorgeous, sexy, and a movie star through and through. Forget about the Bond films, and forget about stuff like League of Extraordinary Gentlemen and Zardoz (please). The man redeemed himself with The Man Who Would Be King, The Untouchables, The Name of The Rose.
Speaking of scenery chewing, I'm surprised no one's mentioned Al Pacino. But more especially, I'm shocked no one has popped out with Robert DeNiro's name. I know the last few years haven't been filled with impressive movies but consider this list: Mean Streets, Taxi Driver, Godfather II, The Deerhunter, The Mission, Brazil, Angel Heart, Raging Bull, The Untouchables, Goodfellas, This Boy's Life, Casino, Awakenings, Wag The Dog, Jackie Brown...the mind boggles. So you can't forgive Meet The Fockers and Hide & Seek? You guys are hard! I guess Harvey Keitel isn't sexy enough and Chris Walken is too weird?
The British...Daniel Day Lewis is one of the most brilliant, authoratative actors to ever play in front of a camera. But DAMN - the man works so seldom. Rafe Fiennes looked like he was going to THE Brit actor of his generation. He certainly has the intensity, talent and respect - his performance in Schindler's List is amazing - but he hasn't *quite* broken through in the way you'd expect in terms of "star" power. I thought perhaps The Constant Gardner would build some heat for him in a way The English Patient didn't, and God knows Fiennes was a scream as the gangster in In Bruges. He still has time and appears to be on a bit of a roll- see his nasty turn as the cold Duke Of Devonshire in The Duchess, plus The Reader is out soon. It wouldn't shock me if Fienne's got a BSA nom for any of these roles.
Jeremy Irons isn't talked about much these days - too bad. I have a soft spot for him: I will always love him for his superb early TV roles in The Pallisers and Bridehead Revisited, as well as Love For Lydia. Then there's the movies: The Mission, Reversal Of Fortune, Dead Ringers, Stealing Beauty, Damage....a long drought of first rate roles...then Inland Empire and finally a nice supporting role this year as the baddie in Appaloosa. Ian McKellen is the greatest British stage actor currently appearing in films - but his best role remains Gods & Monsters (a cryin'shame Oscar snubbed him) and he started in movies very late. X-Men and LOTR have certainly made him a beloved star, however, and I'm sure Sir Ian's retirement fund is...well padded, shall we say.
I'll grant you Anthony Hopkins is brilliant...in Magic, Silence Of The Lambs, Remains of The Day, Howards End, Titus, Nixon et al. But he's also guilty of his fair share of scenery chewing, so he gets a a few black marks from me. Higher in my book would be the less famous Albert Finney (also someone who can be a scenery chewer if not reined in): Tom Jones, Two For The Road, Shoot The Moon, The Duellists, Under The Volcano, The Dresser, Miller's Crossing, Erin Brokovich, Traffic. I love the fabulous John Hurt but he's a character actor, not a star. Ditto Ian Holmes, whose been terrific in many movies but whose greatness in The Sweet Hereafter is one for the ages.
Among current actors I adore, Chris Cooper is right near the top - Matewan, Lonesome Dove, Adaptation, Lone Star, October Sky, American Beauty, Sea Biscuit...next to appear as Antonio (!) in Julie Taymor's film of The Tempest. A great American actor. But is he a movie star?
I also confess a soft spot for Robert Downey Jr, whose great roles can be counted on fewer than the fingers of one hand, but who is phenomenally talented.
I also have a jones for Jeff Bridges, who seems sadly underrated to me these days. A risk taker as an actor, and just as appealing to me as he ever was - Heaven's Gate, The Fabulous Baker Boys, The Fisher King, Fearless, The Big Lebowski - somebody give him a great role...PLEASE.
Daniel Craig is one to watch. It will be interesting to see how he spends his Bond capital.
BBT (Billy Bob).
Enough already.
...but it's a useful jumping off point to discuss some favorite actors and their roles.
Better move on to great neglected performances above. That post is looking lonely.
in a whole bunch of great roles and films."Heist" should be added to the Hackman list. "Young Frankenstein" too!
Duvall in "Tomorrow".
William Hurt and John Malkovich belong in there somewhere amongst the 'mericans and Bob Hoskins and Ben Kingsley among the Brits.
"...You're all welcome to stay for the next set...we're going to play all the same tunes, but in different keys..." -Count Basie
Edits: 12/15/08
Nicely done.
I have many differences but yours are well put and well-defined.
Bravo.
The one I most disagree with is Duvall. But I just fine him unconvincing, always. I just see the schtick. Maybe it's me, maybe it's not. He just seems to always be winking at the audience for some approval. I sense a weakness there, even in his most macho roles. He never scared me, especially as Santini.
Bridges also was fine in "Jagged Edge," "White Squall," and "Wild Bill." The last two weren't the greatest of films but his performances were transcendent.
How about Morgan Freeman?
Denzel?
Or...... Tom Hanks?
..white, English speaking males. I'm not familiar enough with stars of other nations to evaluate their star power, except perhaps for Gerard Depardieu, to say one Euro great who would be both a contender for "best" and is assuredly a "star".
Javier Bardem would be at the forefront of any internationl group of accomplished, charismatic internationl stars - he's got stature,a good internatinal CV and acting chops - I think it's fair to say that Anton Chigurh is surely one of the most chilly, memorable characters in movies.
Mea culpa for neglecting our great actors of color, however.
So - Denzel Washington, agree, absolutely a movie star, talented and very VERY sexy. Agreed. Much more versatile than his recent movie roles. I wish he'd do something really great, unusual and scary. (Training Day ain't it, good as Denzel was in it.) But I can't begrudge the guy making a little money. Maybe the remake of Pelham 1-2-3 will be better than I think it's gonna be. So we'll all remember Glory, Devil In Blueand the great roles he had in Spike movies - Mo Better Blues, Malcolm X, He Got Game, Inside man -
Morgan Freeman is a very powerful actor, and we all wish we knew someone in real life like the characters he plays. One also wishes he had something more to do in movies than be the wise and kindly uncle, grandfather, sidekick, best friend etc. For heaven's sake someone give the man a lead and let him stretch. And may I never see Bucket List again as long as I live. (Back in the day, Freeman was a pretty good classical actor, let him play some villains at least.) MF was just as good in Unforgiven as Hackman and Eastwood. He's a big part of what made Shawshank Redeption so popular and enduring. Glory, Lean On Me, Million Dollar Baby...yup.
Danny Glover is far more talented than a lot of his recent movies as well. He was stunning in To Sleep With Anger, Places In The Heart...and didn't you love to hate him in The Color Purple? Lonsome Dove, Silverado, a looooong drought and then Royal Tenebaums....Saw (ARGH)...back to form in Sayle's Honeydripper. He's been busy lately, and I missed him in Gondry's Be Kind Rewind.
Chiwetel Ejiofor is someone I feel is a tremendously potent and capable actor. A star on British stage before he hit the movies, I think he could do almost anything. A chameleon, but a strong presence when called for. Love Actually, Dirty Pretty Things, Children Of Men, Inside Man, Talk To Me, Serenity...and he was a hoot in Kinky Boots. I loved the cop buddy bit he and Denzel had going in Inside Man - hope he's back for the sequel.I look forward to watching him in future, although apparently he's off making a disaster flick with John Cusack.
Don Cheadle is another young actor with tremendous talent. I saw him in Devil In A Blue Dress way back but really noticed him in Boogie Nights. He's been excellent in the Ocean's movies and broke through in a big way in Hotel Rwanda. He has that rare ability to be "believable" in a wide variety of roles, always authentic, no actor-y tics yet.
But I guess my fave nom for best African-American actor would be an underdog and outsider - Forrest Whitaker, because when he's good, he's so powerful he blows me away. Whitaker's certainly not had that many great roles in prestige movies. He's a character actor and not a "movie star", and his true calling may actually end up being behind the camera. But Whitaker is in my great actor hierarchy for three performances in three very different indie films: Bird, The Crying Game and Ghost Dog/Way Of The Samurai. Three monumentally moving performances, and the one in Crying Game is actually quite short (though pivotal). I didn't think his Oscar winning performance in Last King Of Scotland was actually his best, although it sure was scary. I was thrilled to see him recognized. Hope that Oscar gets him another fat, juicy, odd part to sink his teeth into. And yes, I know he has a droopy eye.
Hanks...what a nice guy and appealing actor - how can you NOT like him? No denying he's a star and beloved of audiences. Some of my friends met him when he was in Evansville, IN, making A League of Their Own, and they all adored him.
So...how good is he anyway? I'm probably not the best person to ask. I hated The DaVinci Code, hated Philadelphia, HATED Forrest Gump, HATED Cast Away. Not his fault the movies sucked. Just like Oscar to reward adequate performances in puffed up, mediocre movies.
I think Hanks doesn't get enough credit for his comedy and light romantic roles. There's a reason Sleepless In Seattle was huge, and it wasn't just because of Meg Ryan. I have a fondness for Big, which I suspect, despite Hanks easy charm and boyish looks, was harder to bring off than anyone knows. He's quite good in League Of Their Own, which is fun if not great cinema, and he's good in Appollo 13. I adore Hanks in Road To Perdition, which most folks do not...I like this second effort from Mendes far better than the more celebrated American Beauty and found Hanks quite believable. (That movie had great peformances from Paul Newman and Daniel Craig too._) I think Spielberg, with all the best intentions in the world, ultimately failed Hanks in Saving Private Ryan, in which he gave a fine performance, but which just misses the payoff. Hanks is in good form in The Green Mile, and pretty restrained, where the tone coud've gone out of whack at any number of points in that film. He was unrestrained and unbelievable in The Lady Killers, for which I blame the Coens equally. But he was terrific in Catch Me If You Can and Charlie Wilsons War.
I guess this must mean I like Tom Hanks, but I do rank him below Hackman, Caine, Fiennes, et al for sheer actorly fire power. Hanks is good, he just doesn't have as many colors on hie palette IMO.
And I confess The Money Pit is a guilty pleasure of mine - for the last 25 years I have lived *in* a money pit. Selling the sucker as is, I give up.
really mean among ANY actors; I only mention color because of the topic.
I agree about Morgan: why couldn't he just portray a family guy or some other ordinary Joe? I think as powerful a performance as ever he gave was in "Se7en."
Daniel Auteil may be a strong French contender.
There are several Japanese and Korean actors that I think deserve mention, though I won't bother because I'd have to look up the names (I never have cause to mention them in conversation so their names haven't stuck).
At some point, I'll go through my records of favorite films and see if I've left anyone out.
...Unbreakable, The Caveman's Valentine, Shaft, Jackie Brown, Pulp Fiction, Red Violin, Eves Bayou. Drug addict roles can be a cliche, but Sam L is one of the scariest, saddest things I've ever seen on the screen in Jungle Fever.
I wish it weren't so, but Se7en creeps me out. I won't watch it, despite the performances and technical sheen.
Jeffrey Wright is coming on strong.
"The man is only half himself, the other half is his expression." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
...which I haven't seen yet. But I will, soon.
I remember him from Angels In America on TV and (I think) Casino Royale.
.
...his portrayal in Jane Campion's In The Cut out-Brando'd Brando without it being a copy.
He should have gotten an Oscar for his rabid Nazi commandant in Schindler but it just wouldn't have been PC.
d
Pronounced: "Rafe Fines".
Happy now? ;-)
d
did you see him as William Cutter in "gangs...?
In Life, nothing is wasted:/ either that/ or/ it all is.
...terrific film - made a big impression on me - I have vivid memories of seeing it as a senior in high school.
I was wearing a pair of those hideous glasses within a week of seeing that film, what a great time for movies that was.
J.B.
films I can see over and over.
To me, Harry Palmer is a far better spy character than the altogether unbelievable James Bond. "Ipcress File," also, is a better film than any Bond. Makes the Fleming efforts seem childish.
but I think I would lean toward Daniel Day-Lewis. I've yet to see him less than fantastic, and TWBB...he was absolutely incredible.
Baba-Booey to you all!
who was in a handful of GREAT and deservedly legendary films, but also plenty of relative duds.
Caine is a great choice.
I'd add "Cider House Rules", "Blood and Wine" and "Sleuth" (the original) as fine Caine works.
Still very effective even in brief "Batman" bits.
Not sure who I'd add... but Johnny Depp would be on a short list if I ever compiled one.
"...You're all welcome to stay for the next set...we're going to play all the same tunes, but in different keys..." -Count Basie
Post a Followup:
| FAQ |
Post a Message! |
Forgot Password? |
|
||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors:
Top of Page ]
[ Contact Us ]
[ Support/Wish List ]
[ Copyright © 2025, Audio Asylum, all rights reserved ]
