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In Reply to: RE: But isn't that an important message? posted by rditmars on December 16, 2008 at 09:28:30
The fact that "normal" people participate in atrocities against humanity is not a story worth telling, especially after the normal people lose their souls by going along with it or remaining silent about it, or whatever.
What is worth telling are the stories of millions of individuals who had a life, a future, a family, dreams, etc. and how each of those was ripped from them. In those stories is where one learns the important lessons, not in showing that the Germans were "normal people".
-------------Call it, friendo.
Follow Ups:
to any understanding of how and why "millions of individuals who had a life, a future, a family, dreams, etc....had that all ripped from them" and to making absolutely sure this sort of thing never happens again.
How did a whole country, hell a whole continent for the most part go completely insane and conscience the Holocaust? What made those fathers and mothers turn into the monsters they were?
I agree that there have been too many films and books of late that smell of apologist leanings toward the perps. but better this is fleshed out for all to see the reasons why than to simply push it aside as unimportant to the story of the victims.
J.B.
Just don't forget what the Holocaust is about: the voices that were NOT heard.
You agreed with me in your third paragraph.
-------------Call it, friendo.
quickly, easily, and absolutely changes to victimizer.
Good points all.
The one thing I never understood is how Stalin, who murdered far more people than Hitler ever did, and in his own systemic fashion, never merited the kind of filmmaking attention the Nazis got.
This can (and will) also get me going on how the Zionists have co-opted and mercilessly cheapened one of the great human tragedies of the 20th century for their own political ends whenever they feel like bringing it on for guilt purposes, but let's stick with Mr. Iakob Jukashvili for a bit (the boy was Georgian after all.)
He managed, throughout his rule, to keep killing people in waves and waves, based on his differing 'evaluations' of what was good for Russia. The re-settlements of farmers, the political opponents, you could call them anything, as long as you called them 'against the state' and, in his increasingly unbalanced mind, against him. And die they did. And then there was that little thing with the Nazis attacking. What? 16 mil or so? Small wonder the Russians have the attitude of 'if we choose between totalitarism and democracy, we know at least what we had."
And then we come back to the 'sacred 6 million' which are all the poor unfortunates who had their world destroyed by Hitler. And ghastly it was. And here are a couple of truths: the Germans were human beings too. And so were the Japanese. And so were the Vietnamese. And so were the Koreans. And so are the Iraquis. And so are the Afghanis. You know, the people who fought the US? The six million Jews were one massacre, among quite a few. Remember Armenia at all?
From a film perspective, I want all of it. I don't want Hollywood handwringing masquerading as 'good filmmaking' in the interest of 'oh, let's not forget' I want brutal, intelligent films that deal with the WHOLE STORY in every sense of the word. I want filmmakers who step up and say 'FUCK COMMERCIALISM; this is history and needs to be told right.
And that includes Germans as human beings, as uncomfortable as that can be to some people. Because only when you sit back and see the enemy as a man, will you ever understand.
CC.
)
I have to cringe in the face of the ignorance you display.
The Holocaust was unique in the way it systematically removed from an entire continent's society an assimilated, productive people and pursued their annihilation in the most terrifyingly efficient, inhuman way possible. No other genocide went down like that, ever. As a direct result, there are countless, unique stories to be told--stories about Jews who lived as INDIVIDUALS, not your nazi buddies who lived as cookie cutter yesmen, except for very rare exceptions that only a complete moron would justify the need to focus upon.
And how dare you accuse Zionists of cheapening the Holocaust for their ends, as if being mass murdered to near extinction in Europe was just an inconvenience that they should never bring up again.
Bullies like you will forever misinterpret history and seek to silence the voices that should be heard loudest.
-------------Call it, friendo.
Jazz, you are funny.
'Nazi Buddies'?? Because I dare say anything not completely PC I have immediately to be called a Fascist. If you would re-read a bit and perhaps get off your horse while doing it, you would see that I offer a very balanced view of what I am saying.
The Nazis did take to a high 'art form' the systematic destruction of people, in this case the Jews. I don't recall saying anything to the contrary.
What I also added were two major points: that Stalin managed to kill, systematically, a hell of a lot more people. Those are facts too.
Where your knickers get throughly knotted, is, perhaps predictably, when it comes to Zionist Israelis. And my argument, since you didn't seem to get it the first time around, is that those craven bastards will use the suffering of their own people at the drop of a hat. And that is where I get outraged.
Because the Jews suffered like hell during WW2 and their fate should not be reduced to guilt-inducing politics used BY THEIR OWN PEOPLE in the US Congress. If you think that is honorable behavior, then I will accept everything in your posting as that of someone with no soul. Which is strange, really, since you seem to make sense in many of your other posts.
And the Palestinians? Ah, them, yes, well, eventually they will probably starve to death so we finally won't have to pretend we care about them any more. And maybe then the 6 mill or so can finally be left to rest with the dignity they deserve, and not just be political cannon fodder for the 'chosen' in the far-right parties.
CC
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