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In Reply to: RE: You mean he can't appreciate.... "Anna Karenina?" But he is on record strongly as posted by tinear on September 16, 2009 at 07:35:52
Is more " larmoyant " in people of the South, and not only that.
But this is Provence and I doubt you can get it fully too.
Can you so much Provencal that you can understand the whole in the original language?
Follow Ups:
several months of immersion to get my comprehension up to basic. Reading is another matter but I still have to consult a dictionary a lot. I wish my French were the equal of your English!
Patrick has a point... in any work there are usually some cultural elements and flavor that will get lost on a foreign viewer. I think we just have to accept that. I can see them all the time in the Russian films, I am sure Patrick does in French ones, you probably do in Brazilian... Some works have less of them, some more, making them totally inappropriate for any foreign audience - I mentioned some such works before. I doubt this film is such a work, but still, I think in general we are lucky if we get 80% of the true meaning and flavor of any foreign film.
You maybe optimistic about the 80%.
It is a matter of degree from film to film.
humanity: the greatest works transcend time, culture, language. Can a non-German appreciate Brahms 2nd Piano Concerto? A non-Greek the Acropolis? Sure, those works may have some additional meaning to a native familiar with the cultural significance but those are still towering masterpieces of HUMAN achievement. Any person with a father, mother, son, daughter or who has loved will find Pagnol's film(s) to be classics.
But the way and the importance of it may vary.
Take Marius, how many of it will you loose, a lot I bet, when you see it. The main message will be heard by you, no doubt but so many shades because you donīt know the roots, the background, the mentality, the slang, the way it is outspoken.
And so on.
I love Russian films and I nīknow with certainty that I miss a lot of it, and the Russian culture of the 19th century is close to the French of that special time.
I can just feels it.
So both views are right.
You yourself just said:
"Sure, those works may have some additional meaning to a native familiar with the cultural significance"
This is what I am saying too. And some works just have so much of that, they can never be appreciated.
I always mention in that context two absolutely marvelous works of Russian literature that not just can't be understood by a foreigner, but even the young people in Russia today don't understand why we keep them in such high esteem.
So the separation from the meaning, from the original sensation, pain or humor, can be not just geographical, but also temporal. There is no way the modern person living in Greece experiences the same vibes looking at Acropolis as his ancient countryman once did.
sdf
Our generation grew up literally peeing into our pants while reading these works, they were universally loved and broadly quoted, dozens upon dozens of their expressions became proverbs. The two authors had incredible sense of humor, typically associated with the Jewish inhabitants of the city of Odessa.
But we were still exposed to the Soviet reality the books described, even though some of it was already lost and nearly forgotten. Our kids, however, by and large, have no sense of that atmosphere, so they mostly "don't get it".
nt
Perhaps I should take an English translation of Odessa Stories to see that first hand, but seriously, I can't. His other works - perhaps. But not that one.
Well I suppose it gives an overview of the real thing.
BUT the translation was excellent as fare I could tell, of course!
regionalist or nationalist "insider" material which render significant (20%) of the work unintelligible to "foreigners."
A good artist supplies context. I don't have to know much at all about Jewish culture to get the jokes of, "The Owl and the Pussycat" which is rife with ethnic humor.
There is very little new under the sun, Vic. For instance, when I supplied Russian ships, I often drank to stupidity with the Captain and other officers (it seemed a necessity for good business) and their stories, though poorly translated, always made sense. In fact, Russian anti-government humor and that of Brazil surprisingly were the same.
I would submit to you that perhaps 90% of classical art can't be truly appreciated without knowing the mythology behind it, religious texts, historical events, etc.
So yes, SOME art will transcend the cultural barriers... images of Mother, depictions of female and male beauty, landscapes... but even there one must be very aware of the period and school, otherwise the "crude" 20th century images will make no sense next to the classical paintings or sculptures.
One and the same.
I am sure that he too, will agree.
Di you saw that trilogy in Englese? I mean with english spoken words or with under-titles?
I can imagine NOT that films with people speaking in the language of Shakespeare!
All the charm is of course in the original voices and the typically feelings of the South of France.
Have you read Jean Giono?
films are in the original French.
Must one speak French to appreciate the decollete of Bardot? :-)
No. But the belly of Raimu, yes.
fsd
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