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In Reply to: RE: "Avatar ": Accept no substitutes ! posted by Bambi B on January 05, 2010 at 17:23:18
Bonjour Bambi B.
So I had the courage to go and see it.
The cinema was counting with me ten people. The best cinema in town, in 3D of course.
The sound is terribly harsh digital and not even in the better DTS format.
The picture luminosity is dark and without the glass much better.
Then there those moment, few for God sake, where the camera zoom, in a very unprofessional way, like TV films of the eighties.
Most un-powerful.
Only few moment of touching tenderness, of humanity who goes down in the visual and sounding chaos.
When Jack Sully is in his let me call it " Solar transformation coffin " it is us, who dream another life that Avatar will take on us.
There are some magic moments with the effects, really baffling, but most of the time, artificial and not fluid, the background look and is like painted paper wall.
The actors well is there acting here beside the word " CUT " in between two scenes, I doubt it.
Then the political message is mix, and I had my own quarrel with myself because of I had to wait until the end to make it clear to myself.
Is it anti - American or only anti Bush?
Is it un-democratic to think for oneself?
So following the orders without thinking is placing yourself in a Nazi context, yes it is.
BUT like Titanic it sunk into a melo melo-
The bad colonialists just get a dictactor...And that is it. Who could ever dare to compare that to the real US situation?
Laughable. As for the story....It is just a cheap pop corn movie who lives for it ( mostly bad ) effects.
I wish I would have seen the future and believed in it.
Follow Ups:
PAINTING: "Welcome to Oklahoma"
Mon Ami Patrick,
I can't argue with many of your comments concerning Avatar as I too felt the plot was familiar without anything unepected and the (Human) dialogue overly familiar. This is why I qualified my recommendation for you to see Avatar by emphasising that this is a movie for children- it has a plot easy enough for 13-year olds, and depicts a neat and clear Good and Evil, with Good winning after a heroic struggle. Thinking about it, there may be method in having the plot and dialogue simple enough for the kids and as it’s so recognizable, it releases audience attention to the stunning visuals.
That " Avatar " was crafted to a young, fantasy-orientated audience was true of "Titanic" as well. I had no patience with the love story until I realized that the entire movie was made as the flashback/memory of an 18 year old woman- it tells the sinking story from the viewpoint of a protected, romantic young woman. And, James Cameron must have guessed correctly as to what 13- year old girls fantasize as Titanic made $2.4 Billion- so far.
"Avatar's" political content though has apparently greatly enraged a lot of conservatives because it is from start to finish a anti-imperialist and anti-greed message- the bad guys are the members of the 20th C. military/corporate greed machine that Eisenhower warned us about in 1958. The Pope- I just love his movie reviews!- considers it a dangerous promoter of the worship of nature and paganistic. We know of course, that the Pope has to deride and diminish any challenge to Christian and particularly Catholic authority. In dact, it’s about the Pope’s only job to protest anything showing people who rebel against the established hierarchy as Jake does by changing sides in a miltary struggle- the definition of “traitor”.
Politically, I see "Avatar" as the answer to another very political movie for children, "The Lion King"- it's the "Anti-Lion King". If one is reductive of this childrens' movie plots, "The Lion King" tells the story of the responsibility of inherited royalty to rule- never questioning whether inherited royalty is a proper form of government. And, it's interesting that "The Lion King" introduces racism into nature- the black wolf-creatures are the evil predators- while the blond lion- who as a lion is actually more predatory than wolves is the "good" animal. As a Bambi myself, I didn't care for the fact that the deer can't speak and don’t have any human personality- they're mute, herd animals in contrast to the humourously anthropomorphic pig sidekick. There’s a hierarchy then in the animal world as to the right of expression and individualism. So, where "Avatar" is intensely naturalistic, showing cooperation between not only the animal species but with plants, and in oppostion to meny driven dominance and genocide by technology, the Lion King is a skewed un-naturalistic promotion of the rights of an inherited royalty- automatic right to rule by birth. As America fought a revolution against this concept, "Lion King" is making a severely anti-American statement. By contrast, on Pandora, even your hair can trees, it's a meritocracy without hierarchy, and things are so serene and non-economic there is no written language or need for accountants and attorneys. I'm not sure there is any hot water or any bathrooms either,..
If you read Locke, Jefferson, Goethe, Emerson, Thoreau, Ruskin, and Pugin, I believe therein lay the antecedents of "Avatar"- a naturalistic, environmentally integrated meritocracy, fueled by an acknowledgment of human interdependence and reliance on the natural world. A very dangerous message in the eyes of those who have to reinforce hierarchy, dominance, fear, alienation, and consumerism.
I still maintain that "Avatar" is an important movie technically and in terms of the visual inventiveness, and important as the strongest of Cameron's series of reminders of the horrors of technology when it becomes so expertly destructive, as well as the importance of paying attention to signs put out by the environment. On another level, there is a quite subtle depiction- of the way in which environment through selection and adaptation affects evolution.
I’m sorry you didn’t enjoy “Avatar” -it seems on any level. If you’d care to fly to Los Angeles, I should like to treat you a very good cup of coffee and key lime pie at a place called 72 Market Street in Venice.
Cheers,
Bambi B
The human footage—which resembles nothing so much as the full-motion video games of the early ’90s—is distracting for its relative drabness. (There’s a sense of actors constrained by having to hit their marks, to make way for special effects.) And the various levels of allegory—in which the peace-loving, preservationist Na’vi are eventually equated with Iraqi insurgents—compete to the point of incoherence. Cameron once again proves he’s a visionary, but the mythmaker who gave us The Terminator remains MIA.
What I meant with this bad cuts.
Bonjour mon ami,
I want to point out that not only in this film, but in all of the genre, I get weary of the bad cuts.
Let me explain, bad actors in bad action scenes, after say, a crash get out of a given situation and you can fully see the cut, it just feel un-realistic. And mostly amateurish.
The action is under cut in many movements.
See what I mean?
Titanic had one magic moment. When the camera gliding unto the sunken ship and slowly come to life. Nothing new but well executed.
The Pope as with other films like " Sacrilege " is doing his duty. His job. He would do maybe a better one in shutting his voice and learn his lesson in history as time change in time.
But are we not in a children´s play?
Lion King I did see. But I can hardly remember, and it was at the time no worth in my eyes of any kind of analysis!
The hierarchy is in every form of life a steady companion in the order of things to be.
And ...questioning belong ...to it.
Who is the boss...Whose rang do I have.
We are made of the same imprint.
Now for the living planet see " Gaya ".
GAIA is also a hypothesis which was developed in 1960's by James Lovelock who was working for NASA and by the help of Lynn Margulis. In the book "Gaia: a new look at life on earth" , which was written by Lovelock, he for the first time, told about his hypothesis and claimed that world is an alive organism in real. The life on earth was called Gaia and according to this, the lands constitutes the bones of GAIA, the oceans, seas and rivers are the circulation system, and the athmosphere is its respiration system and the living things which are living on earth constitutes its nervous system.
GAIA which grow out of Mythology was become philosophy by Lovelock and this philosophy became a source of inspiration for a lot of intellectuals, writers and activists. Isaac Asimov, delineated GAIA as a planet in which all of the things and living things shares common senses and in there, every body told him/herself as "I, we, gaia" .
I cite. So nothing new here, but for the teen age public "une relation a effet " worth to be point out.
My dear friend, what you see is you, the Bambi whose inside has that certain beauty, I, I am far more darker and got what I deserve, like we all do. Even this Nazi parole!
But this film is not worth your epitaph. In the end. From my point of view.
Well not quite right there where a few moments that did touch me. Love interaction, moment of tenderness.
I once was in Los Angeles, too big to me, I felt lost. San Francisco was to my size.
I wish I could eat that pie with you!
But if you ever travel to Germany, after poisoning my America friend Victor I sure would give you the same treat!
So now Avatar is long gone of my mind and a sure sign of its volatility in my mind, any kind of any discussion you are more than worth, in fact it is a pleasure, one of the few real one on this Forum to have with. With you.
For always wanting to have the last word ( yes stupid me ) here is a review that touch more than my feelings.
Patrick
PAINTING: "Farm of the Future"
Bonjour M. Patrick,
Aa always, very insightful comments. Thank you for your time in considering so carefully a movie that you didn't like!
I was surprised too at some of the editing- which seem intended to constantly keep the action moving. However, these are nowhere in the league of the "Batman" series where the point of view changes every 1/8 second such that nothing is coherent.
Yes, the Pope I think is not a reliable movie critic. His his job is tough- to automatically hate anything that challenges Medieval Christianity!
As for "The Lion King", I never thought of it until much later, when watching "Harry Potter" which I find as troubling as Lion King. This is because Potter was famous and respected before he did anything- like Srah Palin!, is asked to join a special protected elite- go to an elite school a la Eton, has seemingly achieved unlimited powers without effort. Mainly I'm troubled by the talk of the magic elite in comparison to "muggles" who don't possess the "blood"- necessary to be in the magic ruling elite. This talk of rights by blood and "half-blood"- or an impure heritage smacks of Nazi racism. Harry Potter is a middle class fantasy of becoming the ruling class by right of blood line. I don't think this is good message to children that a person of a special heritage need only wave a stick to alter matter and space by wishing!
I'm attracted to the concept of GAIA- imagining the integration of all nature.
As for "Avatar", with all it's flaws- the criticisms in the salon.com review you cite can't be dismissed, it remains intriguing to me as an example of complexity arising from components that at first seem simplistic. This I attribute to Mr. Cameron's personality which has such intense focus of purpose.
Again, I always enjoy your comments and insights on these subjects- art is big and life is short!
Moeglicherweise konnten wir eines Tages uns treffen. Ich bin nicht in Deutschland seit 1993 gewesen. Ich hoffe, meinen Freund Eckehart zu besuchen- Herr "Hard Corner" Ich rufe ihn- auf dem Bodensee folgender Sommer an. Er baut alte Autos wieder auf- nur altem Mercedes- und ist das ich bekannt 25 Jahre habe.
Bitte, schickst du mir eine email durch das Asylum. Ich moechte mehr Sachen in Bezug auf Herrn Cameron erklaeren.
Cheers,
Bambi B
Well all the pleasure is mine. To correspond with a nice an well mannered person can only be a joy and on top a whipped fresh cream, as the figure for respecting another point of view, what ask for more?
I found that the last Harry Potter also getting dark in the way the first Batman where, more baroque.
The reminiscence of the Third Rich phrases are certainly to no good.
GAIA is also part of an ancient philosophy if I remember well. And the later years I felt that every thing on earth is someone bound to each other.
Like one personal body, in a body who itself is in one.
Sometimes I find it more foolish not to believe in a God as to.
Anyway the nature´s plan is...the way it is shaped, can only make you knee down.
Ich hoffe sehr!
Patrick
Mon tres cher,
I am on the run and I will go more thoughtfully for an adequate response tomorrow. But I could not wait to tell you that if Avatar did not bring much emotions out of me,-pressed out of me-, your words did.
A demain.
Those mercenary soldiers from earth appear to salute the occupiers flag of Grey Poupon self-righteousness (grin).What I took away from James Cameron's film that you apparently missed:
Avatar is about a less technologically advanced alien race with simple values being suppressed by a theoretically superior force, resisting it and beating the odds. It's about the difference between right and wrong when cultures clash and objectives differ. It is a cautionary with historical precedent about the unfortunate long term impact of nations consuming to the point where they perceive themselves entitled. It is about the "chickens which come home to roost" when a technologically superior force is overwhelmed by a less sophisticated one, and it's about those who try to justify taking by force what can't be obtained through negotiation.
Now no one is saying that Avatar is one of the most artfully crafted films from a dramatic or dialogue standpoint; it isn't even that original story-wise, being inspired from a number of clearly defined sources as has been pointed out by several folks here.
HOWEVER, Avatar is visually breathtaking! More importantly, it's a powerful movie going experience for those with the eyes to see beyond it's groundbreaking effects; especially folks with the imagination to empathize with it's digitally composed native culture.
Just so we're crystal clear on this: the 3D effects and digital wizardry is awe-inspiring in spite of your condemnation, and the world apparently agrees judging from the impressive box-office grosses. Sadly, you seem to be in the minority, along with the mercenary soldiers marching off in defeat at the end! ;^>
Edits: 01/14/10
What I took away from James Cameron's film that you apparently missed:
Avatar is about a less technologically advanced alien race with simple values being suppressed by a theoretically superior force, resisting it and beating the odds. It's about the difference between right and wrong when cultures clash and objectives differ.
Why must be the superior force wrong? Is that a rule. So America is wrong.
Yes Right and wrong like in a children´s book.
It is a cautionary with historical precedent about the unfortunate long term impact of nations consuming to the point where they perceive themselves entitled. It is about the "chickens which come home to roost" when a technologically superior force is overwhelmed by a less sophisticated one, and it's about those who try to justify taking by force what can't be obtained through negotiation.
Yes America the hypocrite.
Now no one is saying that Avatar is one of the most artfully crafted films from a dramatic or dialogue standpoint; it isn't even that original story-wise, being inspired from a number of clearly defined sources as has been pointed out by several folks here.
One of the worst acting dialog ever. Just for kids not over 12. And not the bright sort. Shameful.
HOWEVER, Avatar is visually breathtaking! More importantly, it's a powerful movie going experience for those with the eyes to see beyond it's groundbreaking effects; especially folks with the imagination to empathize with it's digitally composed native culture.
Some moments are breathtaking, but way too dark on the whole. And the 3D effects are just untrue to real life, the sound terribly harsh and un-natural. Nothing sounds like in real life.
Just so we're crystal clear on this: the 3D effects and digital wizardry is awe-inspiring in spite of your condemnation, and the world apparently agrees judging from the impressive box-office grosses. Sadly, you seem to be in the minority, along with the mercenary soldiers marching off in defeat at the end! ;^>
Yes they agree. mental age under 12.
The only mystery is Bambi B loving this film.
He must have been in love this day...
No offense, but that underdeveloped mental age 'foo' seems to fit you better than OJ's glove, junior.
Insulting folks tastes is an interesting approach for winning allies among film enthusiasts who enjoyed Avatar (let me know how that kind of personal invective works for ya), but since you linked your sophomoric review Outside I think we can surmise who you really wanted to impress. ;O)
BTW, your criticisms won't lower James Cameron's box-office receipts one iota!
Food for thought.
AuPh
I don´t like this film, and get adult, accept it.
You like it and I accept it.
You are just a faschist.
Forest " copy- You can place it tight in...Well let not be impolite.
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