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24.83.13.33
In Reply to: RE: The cloning machine wasn't real. Angiers had rounded up body doubles that he murdered NT posted by Jazz Inmate on July 18, 2010 at 21:33:56
The film follows the book fairly well and the visit to Tesla and development of a working cloning/teleportation device features prominently in both.
Are you sure you've seen 'The Prestige' ?
J.B.
Follow Ups:
"You want to be fooled." Borden's voiceover "are you watching closely" comes as the camera shows the top hats that Tesla planted to make it look like his device was cloning so he could get Angier's money.
While it's certainly open to interpretation, you are in the camp that wants to be fooled and I am in the camp that worked it out, to quote Cutter. Rather than discuss this intelligently, you're on another forum posting insults at me, so I'm not expecting a good discussion about this from you. Though the film certainly merits good discussion.
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We must be the change we wish to see in the world. -Gandhi
I was merely pointing out that for someone who has such a large ego investment in his knowledge of and ability to analyze film you show a shocking lack of analytical abilities and understanding of many films you comment on.
That's not an insult it's a statement of fact as any reading of your posts on various films show...this thread for instance high-lights this quite nicely.
J.B.
95% + of the posters - many who have spent inordinate effort studying the film and the book it's based on - agree that the cloning machine was a real working device in the movie. Those who believe there was some other explanation for all those clones in the water tanks shown at the end of the film have failed to make a good argument. Their arguments are always quickly and convincingly refuted.
Jazz, the concensus says you're wrong. However, if you can explain in detail how your explanation works I'm all ears. Keep in mind it's been a couple years since I saw the film, so please keep it clear.
> > Jazz, the concensus says you're wrong. However, if you can explain in detail how your explanation works I'm all ears. Keep in mind it's been a couple years since I saw the film, so please keep it clear. < <
I wouldn't pay attention to what "most people" say. Nolan, through Cutter, says right up front that most people are perfectly happy being fooled, wanting to believe the illusion and failing to work it out. This is a huge hint. The overarching theme of the movie is that everything has a rational explanation. Even Angiers admits this at the end as he's dying "the world is solid all the way through." So it's not set up as a sci fi movie. I have no problem going into a movie and suspending disbelief if the plot calls for it. But "The Prestige" didn't call for it. Quite the opposite, in fact--it had a rational explanation throughout.
Angiers only knew one way to do the trick: finding body doubles. Cutter educated him how to do this in the film and it was a big part of the plot. Angier had been burned by Borden and he had been burned by Tesla, a historical figure who invented AC electricity. Tesla never produced a "cloning device" and had a reputation for promising inventions that he couldn't deliver (e.g., a death ray he tried to sell to the US government) after Edison campaigned to turn Tesla into a pariah. The film was set up so that the audience would believe the illusion and not try to work it out (as Caine's narration said). It was also set up so that every "magic" trick would have a logical explanation. Cloning is not logical.
The tanks were filled with look-alikes that Angier had rounded up in his travels and murdered under the stage during his brief run designed to exact revenge on Borden once and for all. While idiots on IMDB may think it's "impossible" to find a few body doubles, it's easy compared to cloning via an electric device which truly is impossible.
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We must be the change we wish to see in the world. -Gandhi
I did not read the book but it would have been most logical to hire a body double, then pay him well and keep him healthy and happy as the money is raked in. It only makes sense to kill clones as they would be a real threat being they were him with all his ambition and ego. The cloning machine had to be real for him to kill each time the feat was performed.
Just my 2 cents.
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We must be the change we wish to see in the world. -Gandhi
Nolan apparently tricked you , not me. You're looking for the logical answer that isn't there.The entire film presents a magician's world in great detail. Every illusion and trick is thoroughly explained - except for the transported man trick. We, the audience, are conditioned to expect a rational solution to every illogical happening in the film. Even as we realize Nolan is happily painting himself inextricably into a corner plotwise, we expect the big reveal at the end and can hardly wait for it! It doesn't come, other than by explanation that Tesla's device really works. As I remember, it's the ONLY explanation that fits the plot. No one could explain the plot otherwise without opening gaping plot holes. That, supposedly, is the art of the film. Whether or not you find that satisfying is another matter. I didn't.
So in essence, Nolan tricked us. It's MAGIC! And since when does a good magician reveal his secrets during interviews?
Edits: 07/21/10
The cloning was the illusion that you want to believe. "You don't want to work it out. You want to be...fooled."
> > Nolan apparently tricked you, not me. You're looking for the logical answer that isn't there. < <
If you believe it's cloning you believe there is no trick. I'm afraid you're just satisfied to believe the illusion. You want to be fooled.
> > The entire film presents a magician's world in great detail. Every illusion and trick is thoroughly explained - except for the transported man trick. < <
Wrong again. The transported man trick was explained. It was first explained by Cutter who correctly observed that Borden must be using a double. He was right. But the double was a twin. When Angier tried to use a double, the double realized his interests were not with Angier and he publicly and physically damaged Angier. Angier then went on his wild goose chase with Tesla who tricked Angier with a cheap cats'n'hats routine and cleared out with Angier's money, leaving him a worthless device.
Admittedly obsessed with destroying Borden, what do you think Angiers would have done at that point? Given up? Of course not. He had the means, the motive and the murderous method to do the trick cutter's way but with blind stage hands who wouldn't see the murder victims. The idea that he was murdering clones is so stupid. If he truly had a cloning machine, which does not flow from the narrative, he and Tesla could have done far more incredible things with it than get revenge on Borden. Think about it. Use your brain for a fucking second.
> > We, the audience, are conditioned to expect a rational solution to every illogical happening in the film. Even as we realize Nolan is happily painting himself inextricably into a corner plotwise, we expect the big reveal at the end and can hardly wait for it! It doesn't come, other than by explanation that Tesla's device really works. < <
Wrong again. Everyone I've seen the film with was totally blown away to see Borden was twin brothers with his disguised engineer, Fallon, and that they would alternate the disguise so they each had half a life. It was a huge revelation at the end. If you're saying you had figured it out or saw it coming, you're a liar. And showing that twist at the end, coupled with Cutter's repeated lines about wanting to believe the illusion and showing the top hats while challenging the audience to work it out proves the film had a logical reason for everything.
It all depends how you interpret the hats. Clones? Give me a fucking break. If you believe those hats are clones, there is nothing to work out. You're just a lazy thinker, or a nonthinker.
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We must be the change we wish to see in the world. -Gandhi
But you being you, you are unable to accept that fact...hence the insults and cursing you bring to this discussion.
If you'd like me to explain why you are wrong and show you just how wrong you are ask nicely and I will do so.
J.B.
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We must be the change we wish to see in the world. -Gandhi
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